quote:

I don't quite see how the complexity of the product has anything to do with market release.

Not to justify market delays etc, but it might be good to remember just how difficult it is to make a fully locked rotating bolt, pistol caliber weapon compounded by the short barrel option AND gas ports just beyond the chamber !!!
I am not surprised that problems with different pressure loads were encountered, that was easy enough to predict.

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Gas Position vs bbl length on the MPX SIG has achieved reliable results with the self-adjusting gas piston on barrels shorter than 4"

I wonder if the self adjusting mod consisted of enlarging piston head diameter, ports and easing flushout of gas .
Maybe LLD is at liberty to chime in with some detail.
This is a most interesting development and if we are buying it, we need to know just what the quirks can be.

quote:

Not to justify market delays etc, but it might be good to remember just how difficult it is to make a fully locked rotating bolt, pistol caliber weapon compounded by the short barrel option AND gas ports just beyond the chamber !!!

Hey, not only is this stuff difficult to engineer, it's almost as maddeningly difficult to produce in-volume. Tolerances slip a little here and there, and what was once a perfectly functioning engineering prototype becomes an unreliable POS at the other end of a volume production line. It's often a huge bug-hunt to figure out why. I get all that...

But the smart companies do all this work behind the scenes, and STFU about new product until it's an actual product. Examples:

Ruger, one of the most profitable and highest volume players in the market, does not announce product till the production line is up, running and qualified. For a few releases, they've even pre-shipped inventory to their better retailers before the announcement.

Glock announced the G42 last year at SHOT, and they were in stores within a week. Might not sound impressive, excepting that the G42 is 100% USA Made, requiring Glock to build, staff and bug shoot a entire production line, in a different country, for a firearm that departs significantly (internally) from all their other offerings.

Don't even get me started on Apple who (quite literally) sells 1 million iPhones a day, 6 million on launch day, and they don't officially utter a single word about the product publicly until 2 weeks before deliveries. Nothing happening in the firearms world is anywhere near as complex as the tech that goes into a top-flight smartphone.

So it's a really simple game to play - don't announce product until you've made it work and have it in-production. I guarantee SIG has lost MPX sales because of the delays for sheer forgetfulness of interested people. They will probably gain those sales back, but the curve has been dramatically flattened by all this.

Also, posting a picture of a dude with one in the factory and saying that "production has started" with a giant asterisk qualifying that production is only for certain military clients was a bullshit move.

quote:

Originally posted by ZenDriver:
So it's a really simple game to play - don't announce product until you've made it work and have it in-production. I guarantee SIG has lost MPX sales because of the delays for sheer forgetfulness of interested people. They will probably gain those sales back, but the curve has been dramatically flattened by all this.

Also, posting a picture of a dude with one in the factory and saying that "production has started" with a giant asterisk qualifying that production is only for certain military clients was a bullshit move.

Thank you, sir. That is it in a nutshell.

If it had actually been available, last year when they said they were coming, timing was perfect for me. I called them and they told me they were coming. I went to the LGS and talked to them and they said they were told they were coming. We had a part number and everything. I put my name on an order for a pistol and brace with the LGS, just like in the propaganda, and we waited and waited and waited. Well, it became quite apparent that nothing was coming. So, I ended up spending those funds to have a 9mm Trident Arms AR made. Rather disappointed...

I remember seeing that picture with the Sig employee holding the MPX with arm brace and said shipping. What a slap in the face if all along those were only going to overseas contracts when the arm brace model is meant for the U.S. cunsomer. I highly dought some foreign military bought the MPX with arm brace. Very misleading for Sig to pull that stunt. I hope your reading this Sig but get your fricken act together. Nice and all to put on a great range day at shot show, but in the end, get the product out and quit misleading everyone. Thank you.

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Originally posted by tpd312:
I remember seeing that picture with the Sig employee holding the MPX with arm brace and said shipping. What a slap in the face if all along those were only going to overseas contracts when the arm brace model is meant for the U.S. cunsomer. I highly dought some foreign military bought the MPX with arm brace. Very misleading for Sig to pull that stunt. I hope your reading this Sig but get your fricken act together. Nice and all to put on a great range day at shot show, but in the end, get the product out and quit misleading everyone. Thank you.

You talking about these?




Notice the #production hashtag:

Yea that's the one on top and I believe it said shipping but apparently not to us

quote:

Originally posted by schatzperson:
I wonder if the self adjusting mod consisted of enlarging piston head diameter, ports and easing flushout of gas .
Maybe LLD is at liberty to chime in with some detail.

I do not have details at that level.

With regard to "don't show till you're ready to sell" I agree. That having been said, SIG can't put the MPX back in the bag: people know it exists already so they have backed themselves into a corner in which there are no good escape vectors. If they disappear it now, people will think the project is dead. If they show it here and there people get angry and think they're being teased. The quickest way out is to release it ASAP, something which they already understand.

And release too soon, and then people get pissed that Sig is using the public to beta test their products. They are in a lose-lose situation here.

Their choices could be keep mum about projects, like Ruger and HK's VP9 till they are ready to release in a few weeks time. Or do a "It is ready when it is ready' attitude. But saying it will be on the shelves by a certain date has been bad for Sig, and guns have been pushed out the door when it is clear they are not ready for use.

Thank you, IW, sir.

IIRC, what I was told when I called them was that they would be in stores by April, of last year...

Apologies if there appears to be a deceased equine being beaten

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Originally posted by AggiePhil:
snip

I see this, and all I can thin is TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE!!!! Just keep the optic and sights. I am looking at alternatives to both.

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Originally posted by IrishWind:
I see this, and all I can thin is TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE!!!! Just keep the optic and sights. I am looking at alternatives to both.

Maybe these will be better. All are wearing Aimpoint T-1s.

I guess Sig is at the Great American Outdoors Show in PA. Anyone go and ask Sig for another update on the MPX?

I just returned from the show. I was able to fondle the MPX carbine as well as the pistol with the brace. I am definitely ready to purchase one.

I asked one of the reps when they would become available. All he said was that they should be made available shortly.

Same old story. Guess I will look forward to playing with it again at the 2016 Shot Show.

Got the call this weekend that my form 4 came in.

ATF 1, Sig 0.

I guess I need to buy a barrel for my P229.

I was at the Big Rock show in Las Vegas and spoke with the Sig rep there. He explained that there were some failures with the gun after x,000's of rounds. He downplayed the problem, but clearly there is something going on.

I live 10 minutes from the factory in Epping and the desk people in the shop wont say a word about it.

I've had enough. I'm cancelling my order and getting my money back. A year wait is long enough. I don't even care anymore if it comes in tomorrow. I'm done. I'm going to use that cash and get a Tavor.

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Originally posted by SeniorChief8404:
I've had enough. I'm cancelling my order and getting my money back. A year wait is long enough. I don't even care anymore if it comes in tomorrow. I'm done. I'm going to use that cash and get a Tavor.

Spend the money and replace the trigger with the Geiselle. It made a night and day improvement in accuracy and enjoyment of the gun.

Larry Vickers just posted a few pics of the MPX and MCX on his Facebook page.. looks like he'll be playing with the SBR versions today.. I'm interested to hear his feedback.

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