In my part of the world, that's called closing the barn door after the horse got out.

All those billions- we might have well piled up all that cash on the South Lawn of the White House and had a big bonfire. A complete waste, except for the grifters in the US and the Ukraine.

When will we hear that their fearless leader has fled the country to some almost deserted island where rich people live?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
In my part of the world, that's called closing the barn door after the horse got out.

All those billions- we might have well piled up all that cash on the South Lawn of the White House and had a big bonfire. A complete waste, except for the grifters in the US and the Ukraine.

yep but lots of that money went back into the war industry, which means money here to build weapons etc, drives up stock values and pads politicians pockets.

One of the reasons we need new rules for congress on holding/buying stocks tied to government contracts...

How has this little tinpot dictator not been whacked by his own people yet?

https://x.com/The_Real_Fly/sta...634266152882328?s=20





FT has reviewed that Zelensky recently revealed that his army chiefs requested him "to mobilize about 400,000 to 500,000 new soldiers to replace those killed or wounded, and to rest those involved in the most intense fighting."

Ukraine's Spy Chief: "Not Even Conceivable" That We Can Win Without Massive Mobilization

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...massive-mobilization

"The shortage [of manpower] is palpable," Ukraine’s military top spy chief, Lieutenant General Kyrylo Budanov, told Financial Times in a new interview, describing the most pressing situation facing the country after nearly two years of war.

He warned that "it is not even conceivable to think that we can do without mobilization" — which reflects the consensus of the military's leadership, and strongly points to staggering losses by the Ukrainian side, though an official running casualty count has never been revealed. Russia has also likely suffered immense losses, but can tap into much greater manpower and artillery, which is also allegedly being supplied from such nefarious actors as North Korea.

As part of its report, FT has reviewed that Zelensky recently revealed that his army chiefs requested him "to mobilize about 400,000 to 500,000 new soldiers to replace those killed or wounded, and to rest those involved in the most intense fighting."

Still, Budanov tried to paint an optimistic picture at a moment that even mainstream US press has lamented the current state of the war as a total failure and disaster for Ukraine:

Ukrainian troops never managed to decisively breach Russia’s heavily fortified defences: the frontline remains almost the same as it looked a year ago. But Budanov maintains he was not wrong.

"Although the original plans suggested something different, we kept our promise. This summer, our units repeatedly entered Crimea," he said, referring to his commandos sneaking on to the peninsula to carry out raids on Russian bases.

Not only have Ukrainian operatives done brief but ineffective raids into Crimea, but the last several weeks have seen stepped-up cross border drone and rocket attacks against Russian border regions, particularly targeting Belgorod city, resulting in dozens of casualties over months of sporadic waves of strikes.

Many war analysts have looked upon these attacks on Russian territory as a sign of increasing desperation. The Ukrainian strikes have been focused on civilian areas of Belgorod, and have little or no strategic value, but is more an act of 'revenge' and perhaps part of seeking to impose a "cost" on the Russian population in hopes of pressuring the Putin government.

Kiev has been mulling a new mass mobilization since at least December, when media reports first cited Zelensky as saying, "This is a serious number," while explaining further he has to look at more arguments to support this direction." He added at the time, "I need concrete information on what will (then) happen with the one-million military of Ukraine," according to The Kyiv Independent.

Any new mass mobilization is likely to be met with fierce pushback among the population and some government officials. Already there have been signs of fracture within the government over what to do as it's increasingly clear Ukrainian forces are 'losing' - especially in manpower, arms, and ammo.

Zelensky’s security services and military recruiters have also been accused of abusing their power under martial law, also amid allegations of corruption, with The New York Times having previously reported Ukrainian army recruiters have become "increasingly aggressive in their efforts to replenish the ranks, in some cases pulling men off the streets and whisking them to recruiting centers using intimidation and even physical force."

There have even been reports of men with diagnosed mental disabilities being subjected to attempted drafts. Currently, men ages 18-60 may be mobilized and still have no right to leave Ukraine, per the stipulations under martial law.

More at link

I'm with Rolan and Anush. I have studied history for my entire life. If America values a free and open Europe with which it can trade; if America values it's influence in the world, if America is interested in maintaining its ability to be the prime arbiter of world events, a position, from which it derives most of its trade revenue, then we must stand with our natural allies against chaos and domination.

It's not a good choice; it is a binary choice. Either we are irrelevant, in which case, we don't need more than a coast defense Navy, and National Guard, or we matter internationally, in which case we need to provide $ and weapons to those who stand against our enemies.

Make no mistake. Russia is an enemy; not a regional problem. China is also an enemy, and is gauging our willingness to stand up for our allies and ideals.

We have a choice. Aid in the fight, or be the bitch.

I say fight.

And yes, I wrote that check to Uncle Sam, back in the day, when the Rompin' Stompin' Russian Red Ass was still a real risk.

We are sitting on more oil and natural gas than any other country in the world. If you want to destroy Russia we could open up the spigots and flood the market with the only commodity Russia has to create wealth. We can do more to destroy Russia by becoming a net energy exporter like we were heading under Trump. The time to force Putin out of Ukraine was when he took over Crimea while our cowardly 44th President was at the helm. I’m in the not a dime more camp, we have bigger enemies including the socialists within succeeding in fundamentally transforming our great country. We would destroy Russia in a conventional non-nuke war. Ukraine is Europe’s problem especially since they rely so heavily on Ukraine for food.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
I'm with Rolan...

Rolan told us that we must support Ukraine because Putin is going to invade Alaska.

I'm not an unreasonable man, but this is silly.

Well, I'm not with him on the Alaska thing. I am with him on the support Ukraine thing.

ETA: I am an unabashed, unreconstructed, old cold warrior. I don't think Russia/USSR can change it's spots, and I still believe them to be a significant enemy whose destruction we should seek.

And when we are done with them, put the fucking Chinese on notice that they can, in the words of The Kid From Brooklyn, sit down, shut up, and "stick their thumb in their ass and whistle fucking Dixie."

For the record, it's NOT 'Anti-Ukraine' to be against prolonging the war AND all the unnecessary killing of an entire generation of Ukrainians...In fact it's quite the opposite!

Like I said. You guys can make all the donations you wish to this Uk. scam. Because the American people are done. The well is dry.
This is another deal about the $ and whose pockets it's going in. It has been a honey hole for going on three decades.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
It's not a good choice; it is a binary choice. Either we are irrelevant, in which case, we don't need more than a coast defense Navy, and National Guard, or we matter internationally, in which case we need to provide $ and weapons to those who stand against our enemies.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous hyperbole and I'm trying to be polite about it. As noted, the correct and most devastating way to deal with Russia and China would be economic, but we have a corrupt government coopted by the globalists, so we're not going to do that. No, what we're doing is feeding a couple generations of reproductive aged Ukrainians into the woodchipper because our politicians want to launder money. Cold Warrior blue balls is going to lead us to serious problems, meanwhile we just blew the limbs off several generations of Americans in some places where they hated us to begin with and surpise! A quarter century later, they still hate us!

No, sir. America hasn't waged war the way we would need to do with Russia since they were helping us do it to Germany, and make no mistake, a war like that is what it would take. We'll be the world's bad guys, but extra, and we'd also have to deal with China. World War III, or be the whole world's bitch is exactly not the binary choice you're convinced we're dealing with, and frankly, I fear for our nation that there are people who think this and wish for this.

Ukraine is taking volunteers for everything they can get help with. Some of you guys so eager to sign up another American generation for another endless war maybe oughta just fly over there with a rifle and show us how it's done.

Don’t we already know how this ends.

Ukraine is going to lose sorry.

The problem the U.S. has is how to bow out gracefully. I think if Trump wins everyone will blame him for pulling out just weeks before Ukraine was about to win.

If Trump loses it’s a bit more difficult and will just be blamed on the West in general for not giving enough support.

West in this case means America so no matter what we do it will always be our fault.

Weakness and greed in the Oval Office is the contributing factor, and that Putin see's what is weak and attacks it.

quote:

Originally posted by P220Smudge:

No, what we're doing is feeding a couple generations of reproductive aged Ukrainians into the woodchipper because our politicians want to launder money.

And theirs. How much of the money we've sent has actually gone to arms and equipment and not been siphoned off by the assholes on both sides?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
And when we are done with them, put the fucking Chinese on notice that they can, in the words of The Kid From Brooklyn, sit down, shut up, and "stick their thumb in their ass and whistle fucking Dixie."

Please lay out a scenario of how the US would prevail in a two front war if China would invade Taiwan tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
And when we are done with them, put the fucking Chinese on notice that they can, in the words of The Kid From Brooklyn, sit down, shut up, and "stick their thumb in their ass and whistle fucking Dixie."

Please lay out a scenario of how the US would prevail in a two front war if China would invade Taiwan tomorrow.

I agree. We are already too reliant on China to ever do anything.

You gotta love the good old “we gotta fight them there or we’ll be fighting them here” schtick

We sent guns and money. Did we win?

They seem to be running out of people. What’s our next move?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
We sent guns and money. Did we win?

We win the "We Did Something Making Us Feel Good" award.