Yeah, the resolution of the conflict will probably hurt some feelings... just like it would have years ago and thousands of dead bodies ago. Both sides get to be disappointed. Wrap this shit up and let's all be happy to be alive.

There will be no WWIII here, at least not one coming out of this stupid war, despite the wish of the warhawks. Trump will fix this shit.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:

If history can be a guide on Russian behavior take a look at the times Russia invaded Western Europe.

1. When they were attacked by Napoleon, they counter attacked and entered France. They withdrew back to Russia on their own accord and were not militarily forced out.

2. When they were attacked by Adolph Hitler, they counter attacked and entered Germany. They withdrew back to Russia on their own accord and were not militarily forced out.

I truly believe that this war between Russia and Ukraine would not have evolved without NATO expansion, and pressure on Russia.

Remember when the Russians were going to put missiles in Cuba and the world almost blew up?

How does the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact fit into this theory?

^^ Well, it doesn't! Not long after that was signed (approx 1 month later!) WWII started, and I assume when NAZI Germany invaded Russia 18 months later, the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was basically null and void...I'm gonna go out on a limb Russia felt they were 'unburdened by what had been' the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact!

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^ Well, it doesn't! Not long after that was signed (approx 1 month later!) WWII started, and I assume when NAZI Germany invaded Russia 18 months later, the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was basically null and void...I'm gonna go out on a limb Russia felt they were 'unburdened by what had been' the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact!

Ah. So the plan to carve up parts of Europe by the Soviet Union and Germany is moot because Hitler was a backstabber?

Poland will be overjoyed by the news.

If we're going to examine past Russian behavior, let's not be selective in our examples.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


Once Donald Trump is back in the White House, the gravy train rolls to a stop and Zelenskyy will have to accept terms.

I hope PDJT locks up the brakes on that train so hard he puts flat spots on wheels. Both sides in this war are run by corrupt thugs, and neither deserves any help with their idiocy.

Like the man said, "I want the dying to stop."

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
"Thank you, Para" for having originated this site, and for keeping it going on such a high level.

Ditto. Moderating is a lot tougher than it looks. Moderating and running a site isn't for the faint of heart. Para does an amazing job.

.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Fed161

quote:

I do not think that Putin plans to stop. He already has designs on the Baltics. I think that President Trump was right to begin providing military aide to Ukraine. I support his decision. I don't need to lay out the beginnings of World War II in Europe here. I do see similarities. Over and out.

If history can be a guide on Russian behavior take a look at the times Russia invaded Western Europe

SNIP

2. When they were attacked by Adolph Hitler, they counter attacked and entered Germany. They withdrew back to Russia on their own accord and were not militarily forced out.

After their economic collapse in ‘91, and the murder of millions.

Eastern Europe did not join the Warsaw Pact/stay in it, voluntarily.

They were, almost always, occupied by Russian Troops/under Russian Administrations.

Biden-Harris Govt Forgives $4.7 Billion in Ukrainian Loans.

https://thenationalpulse.com/2...-in-ukrainian-loans/

The Biden-Harris government has moved to forgive approximately $4.7 billion in U.S. loans to Ukraine. During a press briefing on Wednesday, Miller indicated that this decision was aligned with legal provisions but noted that Congress retains the authority to reverse it.

This recent development is part of a broader pattern of financial and military support from the U.S. to Ukraine, with the government’s total expenditure nearing $60 billion. In April, Congress passed legislation that included $9.4 billion in loan forgiveness for Ukraine as part of a package allocating $61 billion for military resources and governmental operations.

Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) introduced a motion to block further loan forgiveness.

As President Biden approaches the conclusion of his term, he stands accused of attempting to prolong the conflict at almost any cost. Biden has boosted financial and military aid, positioning the U.S. as the single most critical ally in the war.

President-elect Donald Trump has indicated plans to pursue a peace agreement soon after taking office on January 20. This stands in contrast to recent actions from the departing government, which include approving missile strikes within Russia and the deployment of anti-personnel landmines in Ukraine. These moves have led to heightened tensions and threats of retaliation from Russia.

The Mysterious Ballistic Missile Russia Fired At Ukraine

https://www.forbes.com/sites/d...eaky-treaty-dodgers/



After warning U.S. officials of its intention to launch, Russia lobbed a mysterious new ballistic missile at the city of Dnipro in eastern Ukraine early Thursday morning, damaging buildings and injuring potentially dozens of people.

Initially mistaken for a 3,400-mile intercontinental ballistic missile, minus the nuclear warheads for its six independent reentry vehicles, the mystery weapon turned out to be something else: an intermediate-range ballistic missile, or IRBM.

Its name, according to Russian President Vladimir Putin, is “Oreshnik.” That’s Russian for “hazelnut tree.”

Sabrina Singh, the Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary, described the Oreshnik as a variant of Russia’s RS-26 ballistic missile. The RS-26 is a 40-ton, solid-fueled missile that straddles two treaty categories.

Depending on the angle at which it’s fired, the RS-26 could travel slightly more than 3,400 miles. That would make it an ICBM. But it’s more comfortably an IRBM that ranges fewer than 3,400 miles.

The problem for the RS-26’s designers was that, until 2019, the United States and Russia were both party to the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, which banned the testing and deployment of missiles traveling between 310 and 3,400 miles.

Capable of carrying a nuclear payload and also capable of striking with minimal warning, IRBMs are uniquely destabilizing—hence the treaty. But Russia secretly continued developing missiles in this category, ultimately prompting the United States to quit the INF regime—over some objections from arms-control advocates—in 2019. Russia soon followed suit.

To avoid openly violating the INF Treaty during pre-2019 testing, the Russians angled the RS-26 to lob it just past the 3,400-mile treaty threshold—even though the missile’s design favored intermediate rather than intercontinental range.

That the new Oreshnik is apparently a version of the RS-26 underscores that the former isn’t necessarily an ICBM—and the latter almost certainly isn’t one. Hans Kristensen, a nuclear weapons expert with the Federation of American Scientists, said the Oreshnik is “kind of funny” owing to its convoluted origins.

No one is actually laughing, of course. Putin clearly ordered his forces to launch the Oreshnik at Dnipro in retaliation for Ukraine’s own deep strikes targeting arms depots and command posts in western Russia. The United States, the United Kingdom and France recently authorized Ukraine to use its best American, British and French munitions in those strikes.

Targeting civilians with a powerful, multiple-warhead ballistic missile represents “a clear and severe escalation in the scale and brutality of this war,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stated.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...capable-reaching-any

Terrifying Infographic Shows Reach Of Russia's New Hypersonic Missile: 'London In 20 Minutes'

Soon after warning that Russia's newly deployed 'Oreshnik' nuclear capable hypersonic missile is able to reach any European capital, at a top speed of Mach 10+ —which is significantly faster than a bullet—Russian state media issued the below ominous infographic.

It touts that Eastern European capitals could be hit in a matter of a few minutes, and that Berlin is reachable in only 15. It lists capitals as far away from the Kapustin Yar rocket launch complex like London and Paris as reachable by the Oreshnik in just 20 minutes. This means if proverbial all hell broke loose and WW3 came to Europe, these populations would have very little time to reach shelter.



On Thursday Moscow had shocked the world after six independent war heads of a new intermediate range ballistic missile were launched on the Yuzhmash missile plant in Dnipro Ukraine. Thus Putin has demonstrated that the West has crossed his 'red lines' after its long-range attack authorization granted to Kiev.

many outlets initially reported to be an ICBM, the Kremlin is touting that it launched a cutting-edge hypersonic missile for which there is no defensive intercept capability.

Russia says that Washington has now understood and been able to grasp Putin's warnings and red lines more clearly following the missile strike a Ukrainian defense industry facility in Dnepropetrovsk Thursday morning. The new hypersonic weapon, dubbed 'Oreshnik' is capable of delivering a nuclear warhead.

"We have no doubt that the current administration in Washington has had the opportunity to familiarize itself with this announcement and understand it," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters. Putin had said the West's escalation, seen this week in authorizing Ukraine's long-range strikes on Russia with US/UK-made weapons, makes Ukraine a "global" conflict.



US defenses helpless against Russian hypersonic weapons

Putin highlighted the strategic advantage of Moscow’s new missile technology, stating that Western defense systems, including those at US bases in Europe, are powerless to intercept them. He framed the deployment of the Oreshnik system as a response to NATO’s increasingly aggressive actions, including Washington’s withdrawal from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty in 2019. “Missiles like Oreshnik are our answer to NATO’s plans to deploy medium- and shorter-range missiles in Europe and the Asia-Pacific,” he said.





More at link

Saw that on Reddit yesterday morning before confirmation of what it was. Are we going to call this “saber rattling,” or can we admit that Biden’s escalations have been answered in equal measure? Moscow to London in 20 minutes or less. Jesus.

Where do we go from here? Should we give Ukraine more arms and technology they don’t have and hold their hand while they deploy them? What would it buy us? Some in recent pages were calling for exactly what we did and now we have the response of hypersonic IRBM’s being used. You wanted blood and death in Moscow, now we have a response: they’re telling us they’re capable of expanding this to all of Europe with zero notice.

So what’s the next move, Cold Warriors?

It's been "lets shoot down each others missiles", time to send missiles that won't get shot down.

Ukraine loses more than 40% of territory it seized in Russia's Kursk region

https://www.france24.com/en/eu...ussia-s-kursk-region

Ukraine has lost over 40% of the territory in Russia's Kursk region that it rapidly seized in a surprise incursion in August as Russian forces have mounted waves of counter-assaults, a senior Ukrainian military source said.

The source, who is on Ukraine's General Staff, said Russia had deployed some 59,000 troops to the Kursk region since Kyiv's forces swept in and advanced swiftly, catching Moscow unprepared 2-1/2 years into its full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

"At most, we controlled about 1,376 square kilometres (531 square miles), now of course this territory is smaller. The enemy is increasing its counterattacks," the source said.

"Now we control approximately 800 square kilometres (309 square miles). We will hold this territory for as long as is militarily appropriate."

With the thrust into Kursk, Kyiv aimed to stem Russian attacks in eastern and northeastern Ukraine, force Russia to pull back forces gradually advancing in the east and give Kyiv extra leverage in any future peace negotiations.

But Russian forces are still advancing in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region.

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin's main objectives were to occupy the entire Donbas, which consists of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, and oust Ukrainian troops from the Kursk region.

"For Putin, the most important thing is to push us out of the Kursk region. I am sure that he wants to push us out by January 20," Zelenskiy told media, referring to when Donald Trump will be inaugurated as U.S. president. "It is very important for him (Putin) to demonstrate that he is in control of the situation."

The source at the Ukrainian General Staff source reiterated that about 11,000 North Korean troops had arrived in the Kursk region in support of Russia, but that the bulk of their forces was still finalizing their training.

The Russian Defence Ministry did not immediately respond to a Reuters request for comment. Reuters could not independently verify the figures or descriptions given.

Moscow, which occupies about a fifth of Ukraine, has not confirmed or denied the presence of North Korean forces in Kursk region.

Russian advance in eastern Ukraine
The General Staff source said the Kurakhove region was the most threatening for Kyiv now as Russian forces were advancing there at 200-300 metres (yards) a day and had managed to break through in some areas.

The town of Kurakhove is a stepping stone towards the logistical hub of Pokrovsk in the Donetsk region.

Russia has about 575,000 troops fighting in Ukraine now, the source said, and aims to increase its forces to around 690,000.

Russia does not disclose numbers involved in its fighting. Reuters could not verify those figures.

Ukraine has sought to disrupt Russian logistics and supply chains by hitting Russian weapons and ammunition depots, airfields, and other military targets inside Russia.

After U.S. President Joe Biden allowed Kyiv to fire U.S.-supplied missiles at targets deep inside Russia, Ukraine last week fired U.S. ATACMS and British Storm Shadow cruise missiles into Russia.

On Thursday, Russia launched a new medium-range ballistic missile into the Ukrainian city of Dnipro, in a likely warning to NATO.

Ukrainian officials are holding talks with the United States and Britain on new air defence systems capable of protecting Ukrainian cities and civilians from the new longer-range aerial threats.

The Ukrainian General Staff source said the military had implemented measures to bolster air defences over Kyiv and planned similar steps for Sumy in the north and Kharkiv in the northeast.

Navy's Indo-Pacific Commander Warns Ukraine Aid Is Draining US Missile Stocks

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...ng-us-missile-stocks

https://www.washingtontimes.co...d-depleting-us-miss/

The supply of advanced U.S. air defense and air-to-air missiles to Ukraine is depleting stockpiles needed for deterring China, the commander of the Indo-Pacific Command said this week.

Adm. Sam Paparo said that until recently, deliveries of less valuable arms, such as artillery pieces and short-range weapons, had no impact on the readiness of his forces, which are confronting an increasingly aggressive Chinese military across East Asia.

“But now with some of the Patriots that have been employed, some of the air-to-air missiles that have been employed, it’s now eating into stocks,” Adm. Paparo said in remarks Tuesday at the Brookings Institution. “And to say otherwise would be dishonest.”

The Pentagon has sent two Army Patriot anti-missile and anti-aircraft interceptor systems to Ukraine, one in December 2022 and a second in June. The Army has only 15 of the high-demand systems in the United States and worldwide.

Each battery includes five to eight launchers that contain a mix of as many as 68 total interceptor missiles for PAC-3 and older PAC-2 systems.

A Patriot anti-missile system reportedly shot down a Russian hypersonic missile in the conflict, highlighting its advanced defense capabilities.

The Pentagon also sent Ukraine advanced AIM-9X air-to-air missiles for Kyiv’s F-16 fighters, along with more advanced Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles, or AMRAAMs. The AIM-9X can be used against both cruise missiles and drones.

The four-star admiral said the higher-end weapons are mutually interchangeable across all geographical regions and can be applied equally for any military conflict, but that getting the weapons where they are needed can present logistical problems.

“None are preserved for any particular theater, but none can move with alacrity to any theater,” Adm. Paper said. “Inherently, it imposes costs on the readiness of America to respond in the Indo-Pacific region, which is the most stressing theater for the quantity and quality of munitions because the [China] is the most capable potential adversary in the world.”

U.S. stockpiles of the advanced arms must be replenished “and then some,” he said.


US arms stockpiles strained by Ukraine, Israel support: INDOPACOM boss

https://www.navytimes.com/glob...port-indopacom-boss/

The wars in Ukraine and the Middle East are eating away at critical U.S. weapons stockpiles and could hamper the military’s ability to respond to China should a conflict arise in the Indo-Pacific, the top U.S. commander for that region said Tuesday.

Head of U.S. Indo-Pacific Command Adm. Samuel Paparo cautioned Tuesday that the U.S. providing or selling billions of dollars worth of air defenses to both Ukraine and Israel is now impeding his ability to respond in the Indo-Pacific, such as if China invades Taiwan.

“Up to this year, where most of the employment of weapons were really artillery pieces and short-range weapons, I had said, ‘not at all,'" when asked if the conflicts were hampering U.S. ability to respond to threats in the Indo-Pacific, Paparo said.

“It’s now eating into stocks, and to say otherwise would be dishonest,” he told an audience at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

China has ramped up its military pressure against Taiwan, including a massive military exercise that involved 125 warplanes in October, and has said annexing Taiwan is a historical inevitability.

China’s military has increased its encircling of Taiwan’s skies and waters in the past few years, holding joint drills with its warships and fighter jets on a near-daily basis near the democratically run island. The U.S., like most countries, does not recognize Taiwan as a country but is the island’s main partner and is bound by U.S. laws to provide it with the means to defend itself.

Ukraine just passed its 1,000th day since Russia invaded, and in that timeframe, the U.S. has provided more than $60.4 billion in military assistance, including three Patriot air defense systems and missiles, more than 40 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems and ammunition, and the coveted longer-range Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMs, which Ukraine deployed in Russia for the first time on Tuesday.

In October, after Iran launched hundreds of ballistic missiles into Israel, the U.S. deployed one of its few Terminal High Altitude Area Defense batteries to Israel and about 100 troops to help operate it.

The U.S. also has regularly shipped air defense munitions as Israel presses its offensives against Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The conflicts have killed tens of thousands of civilians.

The outgoing Biden administration has committed to spending the remaining $7.1 billion in presidential drawdown authority — meaning weapons pulled from U.S. stockpiles — to send weapons to Ukraine before President-elect Donald Trump takes office. It will announce another package this week, according to U.S. officials.

However, the ability to send the weapons will be limited by what is on the shelves, Pentagon spokeswoman Sabrina Singh said Tuesday.

Paparo told the think tank audience that the push to get weapons to Ukraine and Israel has left the U.S. with too few munitions in reserves.

“We should replenish those stocks and then some,” Paparo said. “I was already dissatisfied with the magazine depth. I’m a little more dissatisfied with the magazine depth,” he said, referring to the number of munitions in reserve.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wcb6092,

Their next step is to give Ukraine nukes

You should know that that is not going to happen.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...lear-weapons-ukraine

According to the New York Times, US and European officials have discussed a range of options they believe will deter Russia from taking more Ukrainian territory, including providing Kiev with nuclear weapons.

Can't post a link right now but Marjorie Taylor Greene posted 36 minutes ago on X (aka Twitter) that the WH is considering providing Ukraine with nukes. Not sure how that treasonous/heinous act isn't in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty but the Establishment will do anything to cover up its crimes.

If that was to happen it is absolute insanity. It would be proof positive that Biden is having a temper tantrum and consequences be damned, he's going to kick the hornets' nest on the way out.

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
According to the New York Times, US and European officials have discussed a range of options they believe will deter Russia from taking more Ukrainian territory, including providing Kiev with nuclear weapons.

They can discuss from now 'til kingdom come, but it is simply not going to happen.

You can check this thread in five years and you'll see that I'm right.