quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
^^ Ah, yes. And that was after Mussolini had displayed stunning incompetence in an attempted invasion of Ethiopia, was it not?

Mussolini successfully invaded Ethiopia in 1935. However, that was the Second Italo-Ethiopian War.

You may be thinking of his predecessors that had attempted and failed to conquer Ethiopia 40 years earlier in 1895 in the First Italo-Ethiopian War.

But Mussolini would then go on in 1940 to attempt and fail to invade Greece, necessitating German intervention to bail out the Italians and defeat the Greeks and British, as well as attempting and failing to invade Egypt, necessitating further German intervention in North Africa to unsuccessfully attempt to bail out the Italians there too.

Bloomberg ran a story yesterday headlined, “US Fears a War-Weary World May Embrace China’s Ukraine Peace Bid.” The sub-headline explained, “US left on sidelines as China-Russia ‘bro-fest’ cements ties; Some uncomfortable realities of Xi’s visit to Putin in Moscow.”

According to an anonymous official, the Biden Administration is worried that if it opposes China’s 12-point peace plan, folks might conclude that America is only interested in war. For some reason.

How could they possible get THAT idea? Especially with the U.S. having done everything it could possibly do to inflame the conflict, right down to assassinating Russia’s hyper-expensive undersea gas pipeline? Isn’t the world grateful?

Bloomberg noticed, as I have, that the momentum seems to be shifting away from the pro-war Western coalition towards a new Russia-China axis:

China has shrugged off US sanctions over its companies’ partnership with Russia, bought oil from Iran’s regime in defiance of western demands and helped orchestrate a diplomatic detente between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Major global economies such as India and Brazil are refusing to choose between China and the West, arguing they don’t want a new Cold War.

And a week ago, Honduras began the process of giving up its diplomatic ties with Taiwan in favor of economic links with China.

But don’t worry. Joe Biden is playing five-dimensional chess! Once every other country in the world has finally allied with Russia and China, then WE will switch to the Russia-China side too, and be back on top. Or something like that.

You’ll see. It’s going to be great.

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Eastern strategic thinking is much longer and more broad than Western strategic thought.

Western strategic thought is more cause and effect. We do this, they do that, we respond this way, they'll have to do this, checkmate.

Eastern strategic thought can take decades to come to fruition, multiple small insignificant moves that contribute to the goal but may go unnoticed. Sacrifices will be made to gain the greater good. It is not outside the realm of this level of thinking for the the attack on Ukraine to be nothing more than a small move that sets up a bigger move on the world stage.

quote:

Originally posted by BansheeOne:
Well I'd rather continue that particular discussion on the other thread where I already mapped out a course for the US to disengage from Europe if it should decide to (which remains the only real point required).

You know, as do I, that all of this is purely academic. You know, as do I, that the US government will continue on this same trajectory, and so will the lazy, shockingly dependent and hypocritical countries of Europe.

If at this moment you feel represented by your nation's government, you should count yourself fortunate, because most Americans no longer feel this way.

Oh, it's so very complicated, they say to the American people. Oh, these issues on the world stage are highly complex- so much so that all of you in flyover country simply cannot understand, they tell us.

Well, I have news for the elitist, disingenuous snobs and America-haters in our government and I have news for the dishonest and terminally confused leaders of European nations and all those citizens of Europe who simultaneously cannot live without us and despise us- the people of the United States understand a Hell of a lot more than we are given credit for, and the people in this benevolent nation who are sick to death of all the bullshit, both here and abroad, are legion.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Bloomberg ran a story yesterday headlined, “US Fears a War-Weary World May Embrace China’s Ukraine Peace Bid.” The sub-headline explained, “US left on sidelines as China-Russia ‘bro-fest’ cements ties; Some uncomfortable realities of Xi’s visit to Putin in Moscow.”

Did you notice that Putin declined to adopt China's peace plan?

And while we're at it -

- has the US been proven to have blown up NordStream 1, or is that just the author's best guess?

- China has always been willing to buck US sanctions to one degree or another - that's been going on for years.

- Saudi Arabia is pissed at Biden, is in no position to defeat Iran, and has been willing to let opportunities to sell oil drive its diplomacy for years.

- Honduran politics have been a particular mess over the past 20 years, especially as its been destabilized by gang activity, and hasn't been on a political see-saw so much as a political whip-saw with the lefties being at least Lula-caliber and perhaps as bad as the Venezuelans.

I can't see how Bloomberg (or anyone else) thinks they can distinguish between the normal ups and downs in international relations and a "shift in momentum" in this case.

quote:

I can't see how Bloomberg (or anyone else) thinks they can distinguish between the normal ups and downs in international relations and a "shift in momentum" in this case.

Here's the BIG picture "shift in momentum" in international relations: The world is becoming bifurcated. It's all related to energy policy.

Western civilization is imploding. "Build back better" and climate change have become a replacement for religion, with a religious conviction among the believers. This is a self-imposed suicidal destruction of the West. Of course, not everyone in the West supports these policies, but they have become dominant.

The other half of the world refuse to follow the West over the cliff.

One side will continue to have an energy-based economy. The other side will have windmills and fairy dust. I hope the West can snap out of this delusion before the destruction is complete.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Bloomberg ran a story yesterday headlined, “US Fears a War-Weary World May Embrace China’s Ukraine Peace Bid.” The sub-headline explained, “US left on sidelines as China-Russia ‘bro-fest’ cements ties; Some uncomfortable realities of Xi’s visit to Putin in Moscow.”

Did you notice that Putin declined to adopt China's peace plan?

And while we're at it -

- has the US been proven to have blown up NordStream 1, or is that just the author's best guess?

- China has always been willing to buck US sanctions to one degree or another - that's been going on for years.

- Saudi Arabia is pissed at Biden, is in no position to defeat Iran, and has been willing to let opportunities to sell oil drive its diplomacy for years.

- Honduran politics have been a particular mess over the past 20 years, especially as its been destabilized by gang activity, and hasn't been on a political see-saw so much as a political whip-saw with the lefties being at least Lula-caliber and perhaps as bad as the Venezuelans.

I can't see how Bloomberg (or anyone else) thinks they can distinguish between the normal ups and downs in international relations and a "shift in momentum" in this case.

It is interesting that the Biden Administration can't go out for Ice Cream without a major screw up, but can conduct a covert operation to blow up two pipelines and to this day no one can pin the blame on us.

Putin actually has embraced the Chinese peace plan...put out a joint statement after their meeting in Moscow Tuesday. Oh, it's going to shit, but I don't expect anyone to change their opinion. The taxpayer will get a good raping and we'll be no safer and much weaker when this is all over.

quote:

Irish Wind said:

It is interesting that the Biden Administration can't go out for Ice Cream without a major screw up, but can conduct a covert operation to blow up two pipelines and to this day no one can pin the blame on us.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in awhile.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
Putin actually has embraced the Chinese peace plan...put out a joint statement after their meeting in Moscow Tuesday. Oh, it's going to shit, but I don't expect anyone to change their opinion. The taxpayer will get a good raping and we'll be no safer and much weaker when this is all over.

Actually, no. If you read the statement carefully, you'll see Putin airkissed Xi's goals, but didn't accept the plan. In diplomatese, that's a relatively polite way of saying "no".

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
It is interesting that the Biden Administration can't go out for Ice Cream without a major screw up, but can conduct a covert operation to blow up two pipelines and to this day no one can pin the blame on us.

The part of the Hersh story I still can readily believe is that the US was making plans to blow up Nord Stream pre-war; governments like to have plans ready in case they need them. Everything beyond that - that they actually acted at a time the pipeline was already shut down and Germany was all-in on supporting Ukraine, risking to blow relations with the very country they supposedly needed so much because "the war was going badly for the West", and particularly the whole Norwegian angle "because they hate Russia" and Jens Stoltenberg was a teenage CIA agent back during Vietnam or something - was just ludicrious. Follow-up interviews with Hersh and his latest assertion that the recent reports of a possible "pro-Ukrainian group" doing it from a rented sailing yacht were planted to cover up the American plot have convinced me he's basically an old man yelling at the moon at this point.

Incidentally, Danish OSINT analyst Oliver Alexander, who refuted some parts of the Hersh story, has just conducted the most detailed survey of publically available data for the time and area of the bombings. Which suggests the Russians may have done it under cover of an exercise of their own that critically included salvage/submersible support ship SS-750 (originally a Kashtan-class mooring/buoy tender ironically built in Rostock, Germany), which is supposed to carry Project 1855 minisub AS-26. He acknowledges it's no proof either, though; any suspicion once more amounts to "they must have done it because they were there", like with BALTOPS, US Navy P-8s, etc. I gotta say though that between the completely outlandish Hersh story and the idea that six guys on a sailing yacht blew up three pipelines, so far it sounds most convincing.

Which doesn't discount what has actually been reported as fact about the yacht thing - that it was rented by a diving team with false passports, and traces of explosives were found on it. But is has been suggested from the start that it may have been a false flag operation to divert from the actual perpetrators - American, Russian, Ukrainian, whatever.

Has the yacht been IDed, and are their photos of it? Considering how deep the Nord Stream is, and the amount on explosives needed to penetrate the casing, I highly doubt 6 people on a rented 60' boat could support deep diving coupled with demo work. And if the yacht gets too big, then there will be a crew to operate it for the guests.

But the USSR and later Russia has developed a fleet of mini subs designed for underwater intel gathering and sabotage work. Just ask Sweden, who's been the subject of underwater probes for decades. And yesterday there are articles out from the Norwegians about Russia's activities off their coast, including harassment and other 'mysterious' acts.
link

quote:

... ‘Suspicious activity’

Russian submarines, ships and aircraft in the area appear to be conducting surveillance of the gas pipelines, Norwegian officers said.

“They’re around this area. More than once, they’re going back and forth. They’re following the pipeline, “ said Comdr. Tirrell Herland, a Norwegian naval spokesperson, calling it “suspicious activity.”

The Sortland’s acting captain, Helen Dahl, said Russian fishing trawlers often go dark by turning off their navigational transmitters, and are equipped with an unusual number of antenna — raising suspicions.

Meanwhile, unexplained sightings and events are also raising suspicions of Russian surveillance and activities.

In recent months, drones have been spotted flying over Norwegian gas facilities, airports and other infrastructure. In October, Norwegian police investigated reports of a drone flying over the Karsto gas plant in southwest Norway. The Norwegian government has not said who it thinks may have been behind the drone flights.

In 2021, undersea sensors that help Norway monitor submarines were knocked out and last year, a fiber optic cable between mainland Norway and the Svalbard archipelago in the Arctic was incapacitated in another unexplained incident. ...

PS, love the Simpson's reference

Yeah, it's a Bavaria Cruiser 50 named Andromeda currently laid up at a former military port.



Professional divers have commented that commercially available modern technology - 3-D fishfinder sonars, diving computers, computer-controlled mixed-gas rebreathers, sea scooters - actually would make it well possible for non-state actors to conduct operations like this. There are however some points which would make it hard to do it from a 50-something-foot boat.

First, per seismic data and and images from the scenes, several hundred kilograms of explosives are estimated to have been used. Now you could probably stow that with some effort, and maybe this was not the only vessel involved; notably, one of the detonations occurred about 80 miles away from the other three. However, you'd also really want to have a decompression chamber to support such an operation, and I have a hard time seeing a space on a Bavaria 50 deck plan where you could put even a single-person chamber.

There have been suggestions the bombings could have been carried out by actors like the "Freedom of Russia Legion", Russian dissidents fighting for Ukraine which recently took a photo opportunity at a briefly-seized Russian border village and have claimed responsibility for the assassination of Darya Dugina, daughter of radical Russian ideologist Aleksander Dugin. There's also the bombing of the Kerch Strait bridge by clearly terrorist means, never acknowledged by the Ukrainian government though it obviously fits their war aims, and various other possible attacks on strategic locations in Russia.

But the best we know about the alleged sailboat saboteurs so far is that they were five men and one woman using professionally forged passports, at least one of which Bulgarian, so we essentially know nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
Putin actually has embraced the Chinese peace plan...put out a joint statement after their meeting in Moscow Tuesday. Oh, it's going to shit, but I don't expect anyone to change their opinion. The taxpayer will get a good raping and we'll be no safer and much weaker when this is all over.

Actually, no. If you read the statement carefully, you'll see Putin airkissed Xi's goals, but didn't accept the plan. In diplomatese, that's a relatively polite way of saying "no".

Actually, yes. If you read the statement carefully, you'll see Putin agreed with the goals on principle and opined that the west wasn't looking for peace...which is true. In diplomatese, that's a way of saying the west is fighting a proxy war and wants it to continue.

quote:

agreed with the goals on principle and opined that the west wasn't looking for peace.

Which is diplomatese for "no". Putin ain't gonna do it.

Whichever Propaganda Comforts You...

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

agreed with the goals on principle and opined that the west wasn't looking for peace.

Which is diplomatese for "no". Putin ain't gonna do it.

Putin would not accept anything less than a partition of the country, consolidating his gains. He's not going to just leave.
As long as Western money flows into Ukraine, Zelenskyy has no incentive to accept any partition.
Yes, the west is fighting a proxy war and wants it to continue. Therefore, no peace is possible at this time.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:


One side will continue to have an energy-based economy. The other side will have windmills and fairy dust. I hope the West can snap out of this delusion before the destruction is complete.

This sum's up quite a bit of where we find ourselves.

There is no doubt where the leftest and elites want to take our nation. We need to take it back right now. Before it becomes to late.

This green bullshit is beyond ridiculous.

I believe a substantial faction of the leftists believe they can force the planet into environmental salvation. They believe that innovation and behavior change will happen magically after their mandates are imposed. That is, they know going to electric vehicles and shutting down fossil fuels is not possible today, but people will invent whatever is needed. They know there will be some suffering, but it will be worth it because humans will adapt to the new reality.

Of course there are other agendas, as the left is not monolithic. But a good portion of the left has this magical thinking.

Al-Jazeera News — and I am as astounded as anyone that I am often citing Al-Jazeera as a more reliable source than our corporate media — ran an incendiary story yesterday headlined, “Russia May Demand Compensation Over Nord Stream Blasts: Diplomat.”

The headline somewhat understates the situation.

According to Al-Jazeera, the Russians have prepared a draft UN Security Council resolution requesting an independent international investigation of the recent NordStream state-sponsored terrorism incident. Do you agree that sounds completely understandable? Well, guess what.

The United States and its allies OPPOSE the Russians’ legal request for an international investigation, even though the State Department claimed Russia blew up their own pipeline, so you’d think we’d welcome the investigation, to shame Putin and whatnot.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov explained reasonably that the Russians are withholding judgment until there has been a complete investigation, but they don’t believe it was a rogue terrorist group or anything. “For now the data indicates that such a large-scale act of sabotage and a terrorist attack against critical infrastructure could not have been carried out without the participation of the state and special state services,” he said.

He has a point. The two pipelines detonated nearly simultaneously 300 feet under the ocean. So.

Meanwhile the United Nations Environment Programme announced that the gas leaks in the Baltic Sea caused by the sabotaged pipelines created the single biggest release of climate-damaging methane ever recorded in human history.

I don’t EVER want to hear any complaints about my SUV ever again. Not ever.

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