Right, but why would you count on Russia as an ally when they've shown a willingness to cut deals with the Chinese?

Come to think of it, if China invaded Russia, why would it be any of our buisness? The Chinese would have plenty to get bogged down in without anyone having to worry about their going after Taiwan.

China plays long ball; if in fact they have any plans to invade Russia, they would likely let Ukraine play out as long as possible to deplete military resources. Also, they are gathering valuable intel on Russian capabilities and shortcomings, NATO weapon effectiveness, etc.

The flip side would be Russia has no qualms about using nukes within its own borders to defend itself; the world couldn’t really condemn them for nuking their own land, and what could be done if anyone did?

I don’t see China invading Russia. They’d lose more than they could ever hope to gain.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Right, but why would you count on Russia as an ally when they've shown a willingness to cut deals with the Chinese?

Come to think of it, if China invaded Russia, why would it be any of our buisness? The Chinese would have plenty to get bogged down in without anyone having to worry about their going after Taiwan.

I could care less about Russia. The less they can interfere with us, the better. With that in mind, having them bogged down in the Ukraine is fine with me. I never said they are our ally, but that in the future they are more likely to align with us than China (post-Putin).

China is what I worry about. Anything that strengthens them and hurts us is very very bad. Ukraine, therefore, fits that situation.

If China invades Russia or Taiwan or wherever else means nothing to me; it’s when bodybags start arriving on US shores, and that day is fast approaching. We need to be ready and strong, not pissing away money and material halfway around the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironbutt:
The guy comes over here, demanding more money, visits Joe at the White House, then speaks in front of the congress critters......wearing a damn sweatshirt! With all the money we've sent, couldn't he at least have stopped at some discount store in DC & bought a suit off the rack?

If you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed that's very deliberately been his "wartime leader" public image from the very beginning. Since the initial invasion in February, Zelensky hasn't worn anything other than military olive drab shirts and sweatshirts, even while meeting with foreign leaders or making trips abroad. Why would you expect him to dress up just for us?

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Ironbutt:
The guy comes over here, demanding more money, visits Joe at the White House, then speaks in front of the congress critters......wearing a damn sweatshirt! With all the money we've sent, couldn't he at least have stopped at some discount store in DC & bought a suit off the rack?

If you've been paying attention, you'll have noticed that's very deliberately been his "wartime leader" public image from the very beginning. Since the initial invasion in February, Zelensky hasn't worn anything other than military olive drab shirts and sweatshirts, even while meeting with foreign leaders or making trips abroad. Why would you expect him to dress up just for us?

I think it's just another example, albeit less consequential, of his poor judgement.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Or guys like you are just to embarrassed and ashamed to admit what this is really all about. I get there is always a terrible human eliminate to any war. But good grief this one is taking the cake of all cakes if you care to scratch the surface. Which I get it that some like yourself don't. You have made it abundantly clear from the months of your posting in this thread. And yes there is evil in this world. Real evil. And it is rampant through out this conflict and periphery.

Yes there is evil in the world. Is a creepy old dude in the White House and his POS son bad? I agree.

But when compared to one person, a KGB thug, who runs has nation with an iron fist, who from the early days of his rule state he wanted Russia to be as great as the glory days of the USSR, and has never been a friend of the USA, here is the cold fact: Putin only cares little about US politics when it weakens us. Yeah, Biden made it easier being a weak ass President, but over all, Putin only cares about himself. Putin is getting old, and reports of him not being well, I don't think he would care if it was Biden or Trump in office. All Putin cares about is becoming Tsar Vladimir Groznyy (AKA Emperor Vlad the Great).

IMHO: This conflict is not the Fulda Gap in Team Yankee, but a what if Neville Chamberlain walked away from the Munich Conference and decided to back Czechoslovakia in 1938. And so far by the US backing Ukraine along with our NATO allies, it has already sent a message to Pooh Bear in Beijing that Taiwan's invasion is not in their interest, and that fat fuck in Pyongyang is feeling more lonely than his dad's song in Team America. It is one thing to be Reagan's Beacon of Light. But if we are not willing to stand with others that want to be with us, then why bother? Should we declare a FUD an outcast because he doesn't like AR-15s? Do we ignore him when he decides to stand up for the 2a because we don't like his view on the firearms? Or do we stand next to him and say we are in this together, even we are not 100% together on gun rights. Ukraine may not be a perfect Jeffersonian Democracy, but they want to be part of us, and Putin has done what he can up to and including military force to impose his will on people who reject him. And if Ukraine fell in a few days with NATO and the US doing nothing, what does that say about us?

Putin is evil. No matter what it comes down to, Putin started this war. He did it for his glory, and to make himself some sort of neo-Cold War Russian war hero that school children would look up to. This war has nothing to do with Trump/Biden or Dems vs Reps. This is about someone trying to have a legacy 60 years from now long after Vlad the Pooting is sealed in his crypt in the Kremlin.

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
No matter what it comes down to, Putin started this war.

Nope. Please familiarize yourself with the Maidan Coup and the Minsk Accord from the 2014 timeframe. Then consider how Ukraine government has treated the people living in the eastern regions of Ukraine over the last eight years. Putin told the west he would defend the people living in the Donbas and that’s what he was forced to do.

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
No matter what it comes down to, Putin started this war.

Nope. Please familiarize yourself with the Maidan Coup and the Minsk Accord from the 2014 timeframe. Then consider how Ukraine government has treated the people living in the eastern regions of Ukraine over the last eight years. Putin told the west he would defend the people living in the Donbas and that’s what he was forced to do.

2014? Isn't that when Russia invaded Crimea and then also propped up the militia groups in Eastern Ukraine to destabilize the pro-western Kiev government? And gave those groups sophisticated weapons like the SA-17 missile systems? But glad you claim to be a history guy. Maybe you should read the Budapest Agreements of 1994 where Russia agreed to respect the territory of Ukraine... Or read a history book or two about how Russia has treated the Ukraine the last several hundred years. Spoiler alert: Moscow had treated Ukraine so bad in the 1930s that when Hitler invaded in 1941, a lot of Ukrainians saw him as a liberator. So if Russia's treatment is such that Nazi's seem like an improvement, what does that say about Russia?

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:
Then consider how Ukraine government has treated the people living in the eastern regions of Ukraine over the last eight years.

Ha!
Speaking of history, change a few words to “Sudetenland,” “Poland,” and “German,” and that could have been exactly what Joseph Goebbels offered up as justification for Nazi Germany’s aggression against Czechoslovakia and Poland: “We must protect our people.”
By that rationale, the southern border shouldn’t be open only to the “migrants,” but to the entire Mexican army to allow them in to protect the other Mexicans who are being treated badly here. Hear that, Mr. President?

Amazing! But I can’t stay away. Every time I start to think that apologists for the criminal invasion and despoilment of a sovereign county by a goddamned Communist* regime were starting to run out of nonsense to spout, I am proved wrong.

*Yes, thinking of you, JALLEN.

The drug cartels are the Mexican army

All utterly irrelevant. Putin sent his troops over the border. That's all that matters as far as starting the war.

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
No matter what it comes down to, Putin started this war.

Nope. Please familiarize yourself with the Maidan Coup and the Minsk Accord from the 2014 timeframe. Then consider how Ukraine government has treated the people living in the eastern regions of Ukraine over the last eight years. Putin told the west he would defend the people living in the Donbas and that’s what he was forced to do.

quote:

Originally posted by sse:

I think it's just another example, albeit less consequential, of his poor judgement.

Or his excellent judgement, because this guy has seriously won the PR war and is a beloved quasi-celebrity by most of the Western world, and governments are willing to throw untold billions to him.

So he's clearly doing something very right to effect his goals, and that includes crafting a very clear "leader of the people during wartime, leading from the front" image.

In fact, I dare say this guy is a marketing genius, and it involves wearing a green tee.

LOL Who is his audience for this PR war? Who did he sway with this visit while donning this costume? Did he need to make a visit or need to sway anyone?

The fact that there happens to be an actual war on Ukraine soil while he is there is an accident of his existence. He's a nothing actor, the billions are falling in his lap like a slot machine for a casino gambler.

The guy would make an instantly recognizable action figure at this point...all the little kiddos could kill Russians on Christmas morning.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
All utterly irrelevant. Putin sent his troops over the border. That's all that matters as far as starting the war.

On top of that Putler is purposely slaughtering civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.

The Russian economy is teetering so much that pension stipends can't be paid.

Russia is just as dirty as Ukraine is with paying off the Biden crime family. I'd choose free Ukraine as a border nation any day over a Russia controlled Ukraine.

In case anyone needs a refresher, here's a video on the subject that covers how we got here re: political influence and conflict in Ukraine

At over an hour and a half long, it's pretty in depth. I chose to stream it to a TV...



'Ukraine On Fire' Originally posted on page 53 of this thread back in March.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...910012094#3910012094

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
All utterly irrelevant. Putin sent his troops over the border. That's all that matters as far as starting the war.

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
No matter what it comes down to, Putin started this war.

Nope. Please familiarize yourself with the Maidan Coup and the Minsk Accord from the 2014 timeframe. Then consider how Ukraine government has treated the people living in the eastern regions of Ukraine over the last eight years. Putin told the west he would defend the people living in the Donbas and that’s what he was forced to do.

It took roughly 80 years to go from fighting with the Russians against Nazis to fighting with Nazis against the Russians. I guess the Ukrainian Nazis are the good kind of Nazis? The kind we want to spend $110B worth of aide and military equipment on. Got it!

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:

It took roughly 80 years to go from fighting with the Russians against Nazis to fighting with Nazis against the Russians. I guess the Ukrainian Nazis are the good kind of Nazis? The kind we want to spend $110B worth of aide and military equipment on. Got it!

Show where the Ukrainians are gassing Jews please.

This NAZI shit is getting old.

80 years ago the Russians were merely the enemy of our enemy and never our ally. They have always been the enemy to the free world.

Good to know the Ukrainian Nazis are the good kind of Nazis. Thanks for the course correction.