quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:
Wah.

Why Israel can't afford to fill it's own emergency ammo dumps is beyond me. IMI appears to be able to make plenty of bullets.

WTF am I missing here?

The US makes the 155 howitzer round. There is ONE place that makes them. The Ukes have been going thru them wholesale. Moving some of our prepositioned arty round from Israel to Ukraine affects the round count in Israel. And since the US is bound and determined to give the Ukes any and everything they ask for without foresight to defending our own shores, that’s how it is affecting Israel.

If Israel started a forging and explosives factory today, they wouldn’t be able to start making rounds for about a year. In the past they bought the rounds from us

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
...the United States will be on its won and then we'll suffer the consquences of draining our resources down to nothing to support a wholly ungrateful Ukrainian government which will never be satisfied no matter how much we give them.

We may yet find that there's more to it than that.

The argument has already been made here that a lot of the weapons needed for a land war in Europe are different from the weapons needed for a fight in the Pacific.

We also have allies in the Pacific that see China as a threat specifically to themselves - and the European allies are at least helping somewhat in weakening Russia's ability to assist China in the event of a war over Taiwan.

The interesting part is that the military may be having a better time wending its way to replacing the consumed weapons with newer weapons more quickly and cheaply than it could in peacetime, given Uncah Ho's squatting in the White House and a Dem-controlled (if barely) Senate.

http://www.defensenews.com/lan...my-from-budget-cuts/

quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:
Wah.

Why Israel can't afford to fill it's own emergency ammo dumps is beyond me. IMI appears to be able to make plenty of bullets.

WTF am I missing here?

You're missing this...

quote:

The arms depots belong to the United States Military, are officially intended to be used by them, and are subject to diplomatic immunity. Despite this, there has been an unofficial understanding between the two allies that the depots were placed in Israel to be used in the event that the Jewish state found itself in an emergency situation.

In addition to the stateside US ammo supply, I'm sure we're got 'arms depots' all over the world, basically anywhere we've got a military base and/or expect we may need to fight. Those supplies are being depleted EVERYWHERE, and it's extremely concerning! I'm sure Israel is, or 'was' comforted in that if there's a protracted conflict and the IDF runs short on their domestic ammo supply, they 'had' an agreement with the US to back fill their ammunition needs. I'd say it's NOT a bad thing for them to be pointing this out, and I don't think it's whining as much as it's a seriously unsettling situation considering rising tension(s) everywhere, shifting alliances and the obvious weakness displayed by basically everyone in charge of the US .gov!

I'm not sure if the contention is being made that the U.S. is the only nation that manufactures 155mm howitzer ammo. Such a contention is outrageously wrong.

I'm also highly suspicious of the claim that the U.S. maintains ammo depots in Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
It's not a tangent. It is one of the reason Putin decided to embark on his "Special Military Operation." Unless, of course, you think his translator was playing around:

I already addressed that in the post you quoted me from.

quote:

Originally posted by me:
Now, do I think it's a legit reason to invade Ukraine? Eh, I think it makes a flimsy pretext at best, but it's going to far in the other direction to act like Ukraine isn't the last, perhaps best European vestige of what your country has worked so hard to stamp out since 1945. This was pretty much a known thing to anyone who was paying attention up to about ten years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
But while the Galician/Ruthenian lion was co-opted by the Ukrainian SS volunteer division from 1943-45 as one of their symbols, its use in the region as a Ukrainian/Ruthenian/Galician/Rus symbol predates the Nazis by hundreds of years.

Honestly, the same could be said of every symbol the Nazis ever used.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
If Israel started a forging and explosives factory today, they wouldn’t be able to start making rounds for about a year. In the past they bought the rounds from us

Israel has a very active defense industry of course; Elbit claims they have a production capacity of over 250,000 artillery rounds per year. If the IDF are still buying American ammunition, it might be for the same reason they keep procuring US stuff instead or in parallel to domestic systems - the ca. four billion dollar in annual US military aid they get must be spent on US products, so common items they buy with this are essentially free and don't count against their own defense budget.

In a pinch, I'm sure they could meet their ammunition needs with domestic production. But then current developments don't affect their own stocks, rather than the American ones which first serve US needs, but also act as a reserve for Israel and other US allies in the region (or outside of it, as this instance shows). In fact when these reports first popped up in January, they said the Israeli government quite happily agreed to the transfers because it was an indirect way for them to contribute to supporting Ukraine despite their official policy of not supplying lethal aid so as not to antagonize Russia, which still has a military presence supporting Assad next door in Syria.

quote:

Originally posted by mesabi:
I'm also highly suspicious of the claim that the U.S. maintains ammo depots in Israel.

No, that's legit - we've been doing that in Israel for decades on the theory that it allows us to help Israel faster in the event of an attack, it doesn't require a compliant Congress whenever such an attack occurs, and it would help ease the shock of a sudden spike in demand on US arms producers and shipping.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Honestly, the same could be said of every symbol the Nazis ever used.

On a continent like Europe that has centuries-old cultures and a conscious tendency to absorb or borrow symbols from older cultures, this explains both why the symbol was used by the SS Volunteers and why its present-day use doesn't serve as proof that any Ukrainians are Nazis.

The funny part is that we've seen various symbols (three overlapping triangles, sun wheels) being used on patches worn by both sides. Just like other symbols appropriated by the Nazis in the last century, the symbols originated from local and Scandanavian symbols that existed centuries before Hitler was born.

Yes, but in 2023, if you have a swastika tattoo or a black sun tattoo, nobody is going to assume anything other than you being a Nazi, and nobody getting those tattoos doesn’t know that.

Really, noone would deny that there are neo-Nazis in Ukraine (they would be the only country in Europe which hadn't any, including Russia), that some of their nationalists have an annoying attachment to symbols of a murderous racist regime because it "liberated" them from Russian/Soviet rule the last time around, and even some of their troops display those; though the Azov volunteer regiment which was particularly notorious for that at least had the good sense to get largely eradicated in their defense of Mariupol. But if that was a justification for invading and attempting to annex part or all of a country, then between the odd Illinois Nazi, Confederate statues and USMC scout snipers posing with SS flags, people like Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin suggesting that Russia take back its former territory of Alaska would be right, too. Though his speech, and the "Alaska is ours" billboards which went up after it, were probably mostly meant to troll the US.

quote:

Russian House Speaker Threatens to ‘Take Back’ Alaska

Updated: July 7, 2022

The speaker of Russia’s lower house of parliament threatened Wednesday to “claim back” Alaska if the United States froze or seized Russian assets as punishment for its invasion of Ukraine.

“Let America always remember: there’s a piece of territory, Alaska,” Vyacheslav Volodin said at the last session of parliament, the State Duma, before it goes on summer break.

“When they try to manage our resources abroad, let them think before they act that we, too, have something to take back,” Volodin said.

He noted that deputy speaker Pyotr Tolstoy had proposed holding a referendum among Alaskans to join Russia.

“We don’t interfere in their domestic affairs,” Volodin responded, holding back laughter, after applause from State Duma deputies.

Volodin previously suggested that Moscow could also seize the Russian assets of “hostile” countries in retaliation to the U.S. proposal to sell of seized Russian oligarchs’ assets to rebuild Ukraine.

Russians are speculated to have first reached Alaska in the 1600s. Regular commercial fur trapping expeditions between Siberia and Alaska began in the 1740s, at which time Russian settlements began appearing on the Alaskan coast.

Russia sold Alaska to the United States in 1867 for $7.2 million, or roughly 2 cents per acre.

[...]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com...e-back-alaska-a78230

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BansheeOne,

U.S. Push to Restock Howitzer Shells, Rockets Sent to Ukraine Bogs Down

War in Europe drains U.S. stockpiles while Pentagon, defense industry look to deter China

https://archive.fo/jZu4c#selection-115.5-119.89

More than a year after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, U.S. plans to increase production of key munitions have fallen short due to shortages of chips, machinery and skilled workers.

Arms makers have added factory shifts, ordered new equipment and streamlined supply chains to boost output of Javelin antitank missiles, artillery shells, guided rockets and much more, which Ukrainian forces are firing by the thousands at the Russian invaders.
Years of stop-start Pentagon funding for munitions led companies to close production lines or quit the industry, while output of many components and raw materials moved overseas. Defense department chiefs estimate the decline will take five or six years to reverse.
“We want to get the fragility out of the system, so if this ever happens again, it’s six months instead of three years to get a meaningful improvement in capacity,” said Jim Taiclet, chief executive officer of Lockheed Martin Corp.

The U.S. has committed to giving Kyiv more than $36 billion in arms to fight the Russians, including hundreds of thousands of rounds of munitions for howitzers, tanks, portable rocket launchers and advanced guided missile systems. The U.S. arms—and weapons provided by European allies—have kept Ukraine in the fight, enabling it to push Russian forces back to a swath of ground along the Black Sea and in the eastern Donbas region.

The Ukrainians have been firing as many as 3,000 shells a day at Russian positions, and stocks are low in both the U.S. and its NATO allies, especially in 155mm howitzer shells, an ammunition that has been crucial to repelling Russian forces. Meanwhile, the Pentagon and the defense industry are looking at the next major national security challenge: deterring, and if necessary, fighting, China in the Indo-Pacific region.

Howitzer shells are a big focus of the defense industry’s push: The major manufacturers plan to boost production sixfold by 2028. The munitions are mainly made in aging, government-owned facilities run by private companies, including General Dynamics Corp. and American Ordnance, a unit of Day & Zimmermann.
The U.S. Army has committed $18 billion over the next several years, adding $3 billion over the past year, to revamp bomb-making factories and the facilities that service military equipment, which Army Secretary Christine Wormuth described as “vintage” in a congressional hearing on April 19.

The Army investments include $1.1 billion this year and $2 billion the following for new machinery and tooling at a plant in Scranton, Pa., that makes shell casings, another in Radford, Va., that adds propellant, and the Iowa Army Ammunition Plant near Middletown, where workers pack explosives and prepare the finished munition for distribution.

General Dynamics is outfitting its plant in Garland, Texas, with new machinery to support three shifts producing 155mm shells.
Under pressure from lawmakers and Pentagon leaders, the Army and defense companies hatched broad plans last summer to double output of some of the most widely used munitions over the next two years. Production is rising, but at a slower pace than originally hoped.

Lockheed Martin and Raytheon Technologies Corp. aim to boost annual production of their Javelin antitank missile to 3,500 in 2026 from around 2,000 currently. For the advanced Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System, or GMLRS, credited with enabling Ukrainian forces to bog down Russia’s advances with its long range and accuracy, Lockheed Martin and the Army have raised its targeted annual output to 14,000 in 2026, from 10,000 currently. The company this week secured a $4.8 billion deal to produce more over the next three years, by far the largest contract for the munition.

Funding alone isn’t sufficient to boost production, said defense executives. Precision weapons such as the GMLRS are more complex to manufacture than artillery shells and require solid fuel rocket motors that have been in short supply. Making even basic artillery shells is a complex, multistage process carried out in far-flung locations with aging machinery. Casings aren’t just lumps of steel, but highly engineered objects to ensure shells are the same size and can be fired reliably. Some also have sensors and electronic systems to improve range and accuracy.

More at link

Biden is herding Ukraine toward immediately starting their poorly-organized and under-resourced gala Spring Counter-Offensive:

In a similar vein, on Saturday, CNN reported that Ukraine’s counter-offensive could literally start “any moment.”

Maybe the Russians took all that seriously. Throughout last night, multiple independent sources reported “massive” land and sea missile attacks by Russia against Ukraine using both conventional and hypersonic missiles, launched at 5am local time.

As far as I can tell, the Russians apparently targeted ammunition and supply depots Ukraine had staged for its counter-offensive. If the Russians just blew up Ukraine’s force buildup for the offensive, this is going to put the Counter-Offensive back in the Ukrainian mud.

Corporate media is pretty quiet. The Wall Street Journal has not reported the strikes. The New York Times ran a hopeful story early this morning headlined, “Explosions Echo in Kyiv as Ukraine Prepares for Broad Russian Attack.” The first sentence indicated the Russians were striking targets in Kiev:

Explosions echoed across the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, on Monday as Ukrainian officials warned of a large-scale Russian missile attack.

The Times said 15 of 18 incoming Russian missiles headed to Kiev were “shot down.” Online sources claimed those figures counted missiles that hit their targets as being “shot down.” Sounds about right.

But don’t complain. There’s nothing wrong with that. Ukraine has just re-defined the phrase “shot down.” Everybody’s doing it these days.

If Ukraine’s over-hyped counter-offensive blows up on the launch pad, that will probably be the end of the Proxy War in Ukraine. The U.S. military has other problems developing around the world and it can’t spend ALL its time and tanks frolicking around Ukraine.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com...-monday-may-1-2023-c

Senator Mitch McConnell Reminds White House of the Republican #1 Priority

The professional Republican Party is totally and completely disconnected from the average MAGA voter within it. Cue the visual demonstration from today:


[Source Tweet]

This disconnect between the Republican establishment and the base voter has always been frustrating and annoying, but now they are taking it to entirely new levels of ridiculousness. There must be multiple siphons and financial laundry operations from this Ukraine policy. Nothing else makes sense.

https://theconservativetreehou...riority/#more-246255

I don't believe for a second that McConnell wrote that tweet. I don't think the man is all there anymore.

All of this must stop. McConnell and Feinstein have to go. Their continued presence mocks the American people. This isn't about service to this country, This is about their egos and their inability to accept that they are no longer fit for the jobs they've been elected to do.

And this damaging obsession with an Eastern European border conflict has to stop, too. The vampire Zelenskyy is insatiable and he and his corrupt government need to stop draining world resources, and there's only one way that's going to happen, and the sooner it happens, the better. Naturally, I wish none of this had happened. I wish Putin would have not started this war, but it is not our problem.

No one is coming to help the United States with what lies before us and I believe that all those Americans who support throwing our resources down a bottomless pit in an unwinnable war will come to rue the day we became involved. Everything we're giving to the ungrateful Ukrainian government, we ourselves are going to need very soon. This is blind foolishness, at the very least.

We have coasts on both the Pacific and Atlantic, as does Russia. Right now Russia's getting bled dry in Europe, which means that if China picks a fight in the Pacific, it's pretty much on its own.

By supplying Ukraine we're taking advantage of a rather bad mistake by Russia - they simply aren't in much shape to fight in the Pacific, and they get drained a little more every day. This means that we're able to take on the combined resources of Russia and China one country at a time rather than facing their combined resources and their combined ability to force us to react to multiple threats around the globe at the same time. If two hostile powers are willing to let us take them on one at a time and do so - at the beginning - without committing combat troops or our 'latest and best' weapons, then Putin's war in Ukraine is our opportunity rather than "not our problem".

The time to protect Taiwan in order to stave off a war is now. Weakening Russia so that China is forced to face us and our allies in the region all by itself or forgo its attack on Taiwan (for now) makes sense.

As for Pushing Turtle and Uncah Ho, well, these assholes survived because they're opportunists and some portion of the electorate clearly supports supplying Ukraine. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the issue, they're just ticks who don't really care what dog's fur they get under so long as there's blood for them to drink. IOW, their political position tells us nothing about whether supporting Ukraine makes sense or not.

quote:

Putin's war in Ukraine is our opportunity rather than "not our problem".

Do you work for the State Dept. or CIA?

Maybe the combatants could be cajoled into trying a ceasefire? Probably not feasible with the US checkbook wide open and Ukraine salivating at the corruption opportunities.

It looks like someone targeted the Kremlin itself with a drone attack. This was reported by the Russians as the Kyiv Regime attempting to assassinate Putin.

Russia’s Medvedev Calls for 'Elimination' Of Zelensky & 'His Clique' After Drone Attack

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...tempt-drones-kremlin

Outspoken former Russian president and current deputy chairman of the security council Dmitry Medvedev said on Wednesday in a post on social media that the overnight drone attack on the Kremlin has left Moscow with no options but to "eliminate" Ukrainian President Zelensky and his "clique". Essentially he's calling for a 'decapitation' strike of the government in Kiev.

As for Zelensky, he's vehemently denied his government was behind the attack, which Russia is asserting was an assassination attempt targeting Putin.



More at link