Tubes

rack 'em, stack 'em, load 'em.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
Then there are companies that train and sell service animals. The average price is $17,000. They would love training and licensing requirements and no doubt demand rules that are difficult for owner handlers to pass.

And just imagine how much more expensive it could be once we got a nice fat bureaucracy set up to manage it all!

It doesn’t have to be a fat bureaucracy at all though. In fact if owners and advocates themselves get in front of it then the owners and advocates can help decide how much of a bureaucracy it is. I am not suggesting that service animals get priced out of reach. But I would really like this fake emotional support animal nonsense to stop. I’m sick of dealing with them and their owners every time I fly.

How much control does any group of ordinary citizens exert over any government agency?

Also, emotional support animals are not service animals.

Service animals are trained to perform a specific task that helps a person with a disability.

Emotional support animals help a person with a psychiatric condition feel better just by being present.

It does not have to be a government agency. There are all sorts of certification programs that are not controlled by or administered by the government yet are recognized and sometimes required for a field of work. For instance UL certification is not a government certification but it is required by many people before they will buy a product.

The thing is, you say you want it to be MANDATORY.

The only way that can happen is if the government passes a law requiring some kind of certification.

But what kind of certification?

The government can oversee the certification, and do a bad job (because the government does a bad job at pretty much everything).

The government can require some kind of private sector certification. Without extensive government oversight (and probably even with it), some private sector providers of certification will end up essentially being pay-for-a-rubber-stamp outfits.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Tubes

rack 'em, stack 'em, load 'em.

Movin'Movin'Movin'
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Flight Tubin!
Keep movin', movin', movin'
Though the cans are swollen
Keep them pax a movin', Flight Tube!
Through clear skys and bad weather
Dent and bent forever
Wishin' my horse was by my side
All the things I'm missin'
Them cats and dogs and geese and
Are waiting at the end of my ride
Pack 'em in, rack 'em in
Load 'em up, shove 'em on
Stack 'em on, Force 'em in, Flight Tube!
Toss 'em out, Yank 'em out
Pull 'em out, get 'em out
Push 'em out, Snatch 'em out, Flight Tube!
Keep movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
Keep them pax movin', Flight Tube!
Don't try to understand 'em
Just grab 'em, fast, and can 'em
Soon we'll be flyin' far and wide
The gates are calculatin'
How long your pets are watin'
Be waitin' at the end of your ride
Pack 'em in, rack 'em in
Load 'em up, shove 'em on
Stack 'em on, Force 'em in, Flight Tube!
Toss 'em out, Yank 'em out
Pull 'em out, get 'em out
Push 'em out, Snatch 'em out, Flight Tube!
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Movin'Movin'Movin'
Flight Tube!
Flight Tube!

^^^^

ha! TSA at its best...

Look on the bright side; no insects, spiders, rabbits, ferrets, or rodents will be allowed on Southwest's planes.

https://www.businessinsider.co...policy-update-2018-8

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:...but it is acceptable to ask what "service" the animal performs.

You are a dirty old man.

I try my best.

Stewardes, we need a cleanup in row 10 seatB.

So glad I don't have to fly for work anymore. And as for personal travel, if I can't drive there, I'm not interested in going there. I have no need of a service animal, but my hound comes with me because I enjoy his company...when I can keep him awake.

quote:

Originally posted by Cliff:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
It’s all cool until the horse shits all over the plane.

Damn skippy.

I’ve had it happen. Man brings his support cat with him onto plane in a small crate. He slides said cat under the seat in front of me. We take off and as we reach peak altitude (you know as your ears pop) the cat gets skurred and does a straight liquid shit in its’ crate. I immediately yell for the stewardess and hit the button. Everyone looks at me like I’m crazy or a la la la person so they get a bit panicked. Then the absolutely foul odor of cat liquid shit begins to hit each row, one by one, as the smell makes it all the way around the plane. Several people vomit and the yelling, complaining, etc, that I started, has permeated the cabin like the cat diarrhea smell. The stupid, girly like man seated in the seat in front of me gets a stern chewing by the stewardess “Sir you need to do something, NOW!” At which he replies “But but, I don’t know what to do here.” She replies “SIR, TAKE IT TO THE BATHROOM AND DO SOMETHING!!!” I mean she had to scream at the guy, literally to get his punk ass to do anything but sit there. Finally, he takes his nasty crate back there for 30 minutes, I’m sure feverishly cleaning the crate and cat. Most awful flight I have ever beeen on and a 100% true story that happened to me. I didn’t read about it or hear it from someone else. Guy behind me after says to me “Man I thought you were crazy at the beginning there, but once it hit my row, G DAMN!”

So get ready for your next flight, be prepared. I’d recommend a surgical mask. You can purchase them from your local Walgreens, pharmacy, or Home Depot. I keep one in my carry on luggage, I shit you not.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Look on the bright side; no insects, spiders, rabbits, ferrets, or rodents will be allowed on Southwest's planes.

https://www.businessinsider.co...policy-update-2018-8

No spiders?!?!?! Those bastards!!!

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
I have no problems with real service dogs such as seeing eye dogs and the like on airplanes

I have no problem with bringing a miniature critter like a dachshund in an under-seat case or crate

I do have a problem with so-called emotional support animals of ANY kind

if you're that emotionally fragile, you should think about another mode of transport

You seem pretty emotional about that.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
Then there are companies that train and sell service animals. The average price is $17,000. They would love training and licensing requirements and no doubt demand rules that are difficult for owner handlers to pass.

And just imagine how much more expensive it could be once we got a nice fat bureaucracy set up to manage it all!

But I would really like this fake emotional support animal nonsense to stop. I’m sick of dealing with them and their owners every time I fly.

The fake service dog problem is directly the result of business, restaurants and airlines not having the moral courage to call the fakes out. The fake service dog that poops in the supermarket has nothing to do with the ADA and service animal training. In fact, the fakes are uniformly detested by the service animal people.
Compare it to gun control. We detest every idiot that has a ND, shoots someone in a road rage, or leaves a loaded gun for a child to find. The fakes and their idiot owners are the ones that need to be dropped kicked.

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
The fake service dog problem is directly the result of business, restaurants and airlines not having the moral courage to call the fakes out. The fake service dog that poops in the supermarket has nothing to do with the ADA and service animal training. In fact, the fakes are uniformly detested by the service animal people.
Compare it to gun control. We detest every idiot that has a ND, shoots someone in a road rage, or leaves a loaded gun for a child to find. The fakes and their idiot owners are the ones that need to be dropped kicked.

The way the ADA works, it is literally impossible for businesses to determine whether a service animal is legitimate and they could face a nasty lawsuit for trying.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
The fake service dog problem is directly the result of business, restaurants and airlines not having the moral courage to call the fakes out. The fake service dog that poops in the supermarket has nothing to do with the ADA and service animal training. In fact, the fakes are uniformly detested by the service animal people.
Compare it to gun control. We detest every idiot that has a ND, shoots someone in a road rage, or leaves a loaded gun for a child to find. The fakes and their idiot owners are the ones that need to be dropped kicked.

The way the ADA works, it is literally impossible for businesses to determine whether a service animal is legitimate and they could face a nasty lawsuit for trying.

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.
A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.
Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.
People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.
If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.
Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:


The thing is, you say you want it to be MANDATORY.

I did? Where? Even if I had said that, which I did not, I certainly never said it should be government mandated. The awesome thing about capitalism is that companies don't have to be forced by the government because they can be influenced by the consumer. I work for a manufacturer and a lot of things we do in our manufacturing processes are done to satisfy certifications that have nothing to do with any government. I also have several industry certifications that all come from private industry groups.

Eventually of course it might become mandatory in a lot of places that service animals have some sort of certification but that would be the decision of privately held companies and only because of consumer demand.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:...

The way the ADA works, it is literally impossible for businesses to determine whether a service animal is legitimate and they could face a nasty lawsuit for trying.

[drift]

And why things such as "affirmative action", "hate crime" and the rest of these non-sense laws being abused, and misused by selfish people, and then no one who has the authority to question, will do so, for fear of the repercussions and backlash these laws give the selfish people.

And in the end, the people who are really in need, and the "good people" (the vast majority) who are wanting to accommodate the former, are left with the shit on their shoes by the selfish bastards taking advantage of all of it. And I am weary of it.

[/drift]

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

And in the end, the people who are really in need, and the "good people" (the vast majority)...

One problem is, at least in my limited experience, that the vast majority of people bringing pets onto airplanes are not the "good people" who really need them. Of the many animals that I have seen at the airport this year I doubt a single one was a legitimate service animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

And in the end, the people who are really in need, and the "good people" (the vast majority)...

One problem is, at least in my limited experience, that the vast majority of people bringing pets onto airplanes are not the "good people" who really need them. Of the many animals that I have seen at the airport this year I doubt a single one was a legitimate service animal.

Exactly my point.

If we roll back 50 years, we find that the majority of people were considerate and accommodating, but somewhere the "mindset" set in that the majority were not tolerant or accommodating, and "laws" and "actions" needed be implemented to "make fair and balanced" the playing field.

And what happens? The scum of the earth, the takers, the selfish fucks, like jackals and hyenas run in and steal, and the "new laws/regulations, whatever" facilitate the "taking", and hamstring the good and decent people.

It is not that hard to see, and it should not need to be explained.

But, damn... it seems as if the majority are like mindless zombies, wandering around oblivious to all of it.

And the strong desire to just start slapping everyone to a point of awakening is a hard thing to stifle.


Does every "leaving" generation see things this way, or is this a different thing?

quote:

So basically, we re trusting the same people who over prescribed narcotic medication and supported Obamacare to decide who needs an emotional support horse and who doesn’t.

Not exactly. Most physicians were not in support of Obamacare and do not work in pill mills. Sadly, there are very few restrictions as to who may write these letters. Restricting it to clinical psychologists and psychiatrists would be appropriate. That is usually the standard for expert testimony in the Federal courts and in most states the requirements to determine whether a person should be hospitalized against their will. It is open to your friendly medical doctor who likely has limited training in mental health or "licensed mental health provider" whatever that is.

I fly quite a bit and while I wouldn't bring my dogs into the cabin of a plane I have never been bothered by someone else doing it. It's the other humans on the plane that tend to aggravate me.