sns3guppy, what if they charge animals in the cabin are a safety hazard (because they can't wear a seat belt) and/or a health hazard (because they can't control their elimination)?

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
sns3guppy, what if they charge animals in the cabin are a safety hazard (because they can't wear a seat belt) and/or a health hazard (because they can't control their elimination)?

flashguy

Neither of those are contract issues for the pilots. None affect duty cycle, pay, or other issues of the contract.

It's very hard for the pilots to stipulate what the FAA, the company, and various organizations have already approved, and you'll note in the link to the horse story, a smiling crew, including both pilots, as they pose with the horse.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/trave...orse-service-animal/

https://www.bgs.com/commercial...-as-service-animals/

Apparently they can be "housebroken" and trained to refrain from elimination for up to 6 hours, and that training is one of the requirements under the ADA for a service pony. An increasing trend for miniature horses instead of dogs for service animals is apparently due to lower cost to train (up to sixty grand to train the dog), shorter training times, and the horse lives longer.

quote:

Originally posted by rpm2010:
Just won't fly SW...ridiculous!!

The incident that caused me to resurrect this thread is a horse on an American Airlines flight (pictured directly above this post)—-not Southwest, so I guess you “just won’t fly” American either.

Yeah, the crew sanctioning this insanity by posing with the livestock really helps matters. Damn!

Why in the world anyone would signal approval for this outrageous nonsense by making these mentally ill people feel like what they're doing is in any way OK, is beyond me.

Oh, hey, something to put up on your Facebook page, huh? How cute!!

I have posed with penguins before. That was before everyone decide Seaworld was the devil supposedly. Not posing with support animals ever.

I love dogs but I ignore people with any dog at the airport that isn’t in a crate. Our society embracing people bringing there pets every where they go is insane. I hate it. I don’t want to shop and eat with your pet. It is that simple. You want to get outdoors with Fido? Go to a fucking park.

Maybe they should post pics of the smiling flight attendant(s) who has to pick up the poop or soak up 5 gal. of horse pee with towels. I'm sure the large bodied person seated behind the horse (pic) is not going to do it. Yes, SW & American are off the list. Are the airlines required to post notices to passengers prior to a flight that "service" animals are on board? In case some other passenger has a phobia about such service animal or animal by-products being distributed on the plane (think Monk). What would happen if you get some passenger who really, I mean really starts freaking out during the flight...beats watching a in-flght movie.

I can't believe the airline would approve this.

Getting out of a metal tube in an emergency depends on fast egress, a horse doesn't play into that scenario.

I vote for a return to the old school method of dealing with emotionally needy pax...

Hypothetical question: If a passenger, V-Tail for example, has boarded the airplane and been seated, and then somebody brings an emotional support animal on board, could V-Tail un-ass the airplane and get a refund on his ticket?

If V-Tail did un-ass the airplane, would his checked luggage have to be taken off? I bet that the airline would not be happy about finding the checked luggage, but I also bet that TSA or whoever would not be happy if luggage went on a flight without the passenger. That scenario could be construed as aiding and abetting a potential bomb.

quote:

Originally posted by Neel:
I can't believe the airline would approve this.

My airline would not allow this. The Emotional Support Animal guidelines SPECIFICALLY state the animal cannot weigh more than 65 lbs. and may only be a dog or cat. And...AND...must be leashed and seated at the customer's feet without protruding into the aisle. It also states a carrier is HIGHLY recommended, if possible. Still...I've had cats all my life and there is NOTHING worse than the smell of cat shit when it's dumped under duress.

I am in high hopes this guy called my airline to book a ticket for him and his horse and was politely told to go pound sand. Guess it brings new meaning to the phrase, "Need to go talk to a man about a horse." Yeah...it's outta control.

What redresses are available to a seat-mate who suddenly finds that a service/comfort animal has taken residence alongside? What if the person is allergic to such animal? Who has to move? What if a move is not possible? (I believe at least one such incident has already happened, and the outcome was not favorable to the person with the allergy.) It sounds like a lawsuit to me.

IMNSHO, I have no problem with persons flying with their pets/animals, but they should all be in cages or carriers and in with the checked baggage.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Hypothetical question: If a passenger, V-Tail for example, has boarded the airplane and been seated, and then somebody brings an emotional support animal on board, could V-Tail un-ass the airplane and get a refund on his ticket?

If V-Tail did un-ass the airplane, would his checked luggage have to be taken off? I bet that the airline would not be happy about finding the checked luggage, but I also bet that TSA or whoever would not be happy if luggage went on a flight without the passenger. That scenario could be construed as aiding and abetting a potential bomb.

Wow, what an interesting scenario.

quote:

Originally posted by rpm2010:
Maybe they should post pics of the smiling flight attendant(s) who has to pick up the poop or soak up 5 gal. of horse pee with towels.

Service animals are required to be housebroken. It is the responsibility of the owner to potty the animal before traveling.
As for a mess
“A business is not required to provide care or food for a service animal or provide a special location for it to relieve itself.”
“However, if a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may be charged for damage caused by his or her service animal.”
Removing a service animal:“unless: (1) the animal is out of control and the animal's owner does not take effective action to control it (for example, a dog that barks repeatedly during a movie) or (2) the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.”

https://www.ada.gov/archive/svcanimb.htm

I’m sure if the horse took a dump and peed, the cabin staff would clean it up. However, the airline can ban the owner and charge her for sanitizing the aircraft.

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
I’m sure if the horse took a dump and peed, the cabin staff would clean it up. However, the airline can ban the owner and charge her for sanitizing the aircraft.

Point of clarification...the most JUNIOR of the cabin crew would clean it up. Seniority has its privileges in the airlines...

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

Hypothetical question: If a passenger, V-Tail for example, has boarded the airplane and been seated, and then somebody brings an emotional support animal on board, could V-Tail un-ass the airplane and get a refund on his ticket?

If V-Tail did un-ass the airplane, would his checked luggage have to be taken off? I bet that the airline would not be happy about finding the checked luggage, but I also bet that TSA or whoever would not be happy if luggage went on a flight without the passenger. That scenario could be construed as aiding and abetting a potential bomb.

Wow, what an interesting scenario.

I can not imagine any set of circumstances in which I would remain on board an airplane if an emotional support animal came into the cabin.

An actual service dog, like for instance a seeing eye dog, fine. They are likely to be better behaved than most of the two-legged passengers. Emotional support animal, no way. One of those comes into the cabin and I leave.

Of course that's easy for me to say, I no longer have any pressing need to travel by airline; I don't know what the business traveler who really has to get someplace would do.

Isn't there an actual legal difference between a true "service animal" and an "emotional support" animal?

As far as airlines worried about getting sued for barring any animal that comes along, they should also worry about getting sued by someone who is emotionally crippled by being next to certain animals in a cramped cabin (place a person with an "emotional support snake" next to me and see how fast I sue you).

I detest federal intervention, but the federal government regulates the airline industry and they need to put a stop to this. It is patently unsafe.

I have to fly SW on Sunday to get home. If SW is going to screw anything up it will be at Midway

If you can’t go about your normal day’s routine without some kinda “emotional support” monkey/rat/horse/cat/manatee or wildabeast, you should not be walking around freely in the general public.

I’m sorry, but that’s just the truth. Rubber room, long formal white jacket, whatever, add a mild dose of lithium....

But if I was on a plane and some fucknugget got on with a miniature horse or hippo or anything other than a dog and a white cane, I’m getting up and leaving the plane...the airplane company can figure it out from there...

I’m and asshole and I know it. But that shit is too far. When does it end?

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Isn't there an actual legal difference between a true "service animal" and an "emotional support" animal?...

I too am having trouble with a horse as a "service animal." One of the articles sns3guppy posted above says:

Miniature horses are also capable of pulling wheelchairs, entering buses, using escalators, and assisting with steadying those who cannot walk on their own without support. Miniature horses are capable of riding in cars or taxi cabs with their handlers.

In addition, these horses are trained to recognize signal lights and stop signs, identify and alert handlers to curbs, and recognize and avoid hazards in the environment.

https://www.bgs.com/commercial...-as-service-animals/

1. What disability does the lady have that the horse helps her with?

2. When will Congress amend the ADA to stop this shit?

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I can not imagine any set of circumstances in which I would remain on board an airplane if an emotional support animal came into the cabin.

An actual service dog, like for instance a seeing eye dog, fine. They are likely to be better behaved than most of the two-legged passengers. Emotional support animal, no way. One of those comes into the cabin and I leave.

Of course that's easy for me to say, I no longer have any pressing need to travel by airline; I don't know what the business traveler who really has to get someplace would do.

I'm curious; if a man has a german shepherd with a vest around the dog and a patch that says "service animal," you'd stay aboard as a paying passenger, but if the same dog with the same vest were aboard with a patch that says "emotional support animal," you'd throw away the cost of the ticket, get off the flight and walk away?

Is it just the concept of one classification vs. the other that drives you so strongly?

I understand that some say they won't fly if an animal is aboard. Some say they'll only fly with certain animals aboard. Some say they won't fly at all now. You're saying you'll fly if the animal is classified a certain way, but not another?

I'll caveat that by saying I couldn't care less what's on board or who has it, whether I'm in the cabin or not, so it doesn't matter much to me, but I'm curious about what's driving others on the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Hypothetical question: If a passenger, V-Tail for example, has boarded the airplane and been seated, and then somebody brings an emotional support animal on board, could V-Tail un-ass the airplane and get a refund on his ticket?

If V-Tail did un-ass the airplane, would his checked luggage have to be taken off? I bet that the airline would not be happy about finding the checked luggage, but I also bet that TSA or whoever would not be happy if luggage went on a flight without the passenger. That scenario could be construed as aiding and abetting a potential bomb.

The TSA couldn't care less if your baggage goes flying without you: it happens all the time. It happened not long ago with the man I mentioned who was allergic to the seeing eye dog. The man got off, his luggage flew. The man was upset because his luggage contained his allergy medicine.

You could get off the airplane. Your luggage probably wouldn't be joining you.

"Aiding and abetting a potential bomb?" Not unless you made a bomb threat. In that case your world changes for life and the dog, cat, pony, or other is the very least of your worries.

Remember that your luggage has already been screened. Your checked luggage has been screened and loaded. Your carry-on baggage may get off with you, but it's also been screened.

I was on a flight many years ago in which we were holding short of the runway, then taxied back to the terminal. We were surrounded by police vehicles. The cabin was opened, and law enforcement came aboard and removed a passenger. The luggage was removed, spread out on the ramp, and then as passengers we were all removed from the flight and secured in a room. After some time, we were returned to the aircraft, the baggage loaded, and we departed.

It turned out that two men attempted to board originally. One of them got huffy with the gate agent, brought her to tears, and made threats. He was arrested. He had a history of making threats, and apparently a warrant for his arrest based on threats to airlines. His quiet partner, however, boarded the airplane, and the luggage was aboard the airplane, when someone, somewhere, figured out the error. We were returned to the gate, the quiet companion taken into custody, all luggage re-sorted and both their luggage removed.

That's the result of making a threat...but getting off the airplane because you don't like someone's dog...not the same thing at all.