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Official Space Nerd |
I've said previously in this thread that *I* would have gotten off the plane, and complained about it later. HOWEVER, There comes a time when we have to stand up to injustice. I think this was one of those times. Maybe if enough of us push back against the BS, it will stop? I think UAL got the hint over this issue - look at all the positive change that will result. So, I applaud the doctor for standing up to the thugs and doing what he felt was right. Only he can judge whether it was worth it (an 8-figure settlement would compensate ME for a LOT of abuse). . .
It is apparently a result of flight crews (not all of them, but the lazy/crappy ones) being used to treating passengers (paying customers) like garbage. I've never had a bad encounter as others have recounted, but over millions of passengers a year, such abuse will happen. NOW, a) some passengers will be more likely to stand up for their rights, and b) some will use this as an excuse to act like douchebags (no system is perfect).
I thought that 'criminal history' nonsense was discredited? Didn't the 'news' source get the wrong guy, and ran with the ridiculous story anyway even after being called out on it (probably trying to prop up UAL's side of the story)? Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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Professor Smack-Down |
I believe they would have been able to drive and still had time to rest properly. This incident took place in the afternoon - they could have driven to St. Louis and been there by mid evening. What's the problem? And, not to be a prick, but sometimes you have to work on less than optimal rest. In this case, however, they would have easily been snug as a bug by 9 PM had they so chosen to drive. 32 pages? This was such a simple problem to solve. Simple. No, I'm not a pilot or associated with the industry in any way. I only have a doctorate in chemistry, so please be patient with me and my stupid opinions. Raise compensation until someone bites. End of story. Or...do what they did and pay millions (on way or the other). There. See? Simple. Some of you have really dug a hole. ---------------------------- Tony Guns in my collection: Awaiting next purchase | |||
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Info Guru |
Are you saying they can be shuttled in the jet and not be considered 'on duty', but if they are shuttled in a van they are? That makes no sense. If they are on duty either way they had plenty of time to get rest upon arrival. The plane was delayed over 2 hours due to this fiasco, so they saved no time by flying.
The flight crew has never been 'in it' to me. They had nothing to do with it. United wanted them at another location, they had no choice in the matter and it wasn't their decision to illegally de-plane someone after they had already been granted boarding. Have a good one and I hope you don't need those brass knuckles!  “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams | |||
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| Professor Smack-Down |
^^^^Of course it makes sense. They need at least 12 hours of slumber in order to do their job effectively without being grumpy bastards. Oh, wait. ---------------------------- Tony Guns in my collection: Awaiting next purchase | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
one point I would like to see resolved here is the statement (often in this thread) that the airlines are limited to $1350 in compensation for over booking. I do not think that is true. The airlines cannot be REQUIRED to pay more than $1350. But I do not know of any law that says the airlines cannot voluntarily pay as much as they want to. So just for example, United could have offered $5000 (or more) to get people to volunteer. thoughts ? | |||
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| Member |
There are plenty of examples of other airlines offering generous incentives to entice volunteers. This situation reveals that United's policy, at least in this case, was not to do whatever it took to entice sufficient volunteers to give up their seats, but to quickly transition to the involuntary process to the detriment of paying customers. This decision is exactly why they are getting so much well-deserved criticism. We may never know if this specific decision was driven by corporate policy or the bad judgment of an employee at the gate, but either way, it will cost them much more in the long run than other options they could have pursued (like renting a car or buying tickets on another airline for their employees). | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
I truly hope you are never put in the position in which the Dr. found himself. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Member |
Interesting thought. Let's apply this elsewhere. Buying a car involves a lot of time consuming paperwork. I'm sure the attorneys and the courts won't have any issues with the dealership guys simply skipping some of the steps to move the process along more quickly. Process and procedure are established for reasons, and when companies or individuals willfully ignore them, they open themselves up to challenge. And the resulting outcome of Dr. Daos 'challenge' is going to be a check with seven digits for Dr. Dao, and a change in behavior for all airlines seeking to avoid a similar worldwide shit show. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
What previous criminal history? AIR, the doctor with the previous criminal history was not this one. Apparently, same first and last name, but different middle names. Another case of BS posted/published by the oh-so-reliable media? Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Member |
I have to respond to this. The pilots in this thread have insisted that they are in charge. Have insisted that they are the one who decides what applies in their toybox. Can't have it both ways - the PILOT is culpable if you want to apply the "I'm in charge on my plane" rule ..... . | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
some info in this report from a passenger on FL3411 that offers a bit more insight http://people.com/human-intere...n-after-altercation/ A mother seated in the row behind the doctor who was forcibly removed from Sunday’s United Airlines flight 3411 says the man’s wife was “visibly shaken” by the violent ordeal. Dr. Teresa Dao, was sitting a row back and across the aisle, according to Griffin Cummings. She followed her husband off the plane, but came back to grab their carry-on luggage — “not crying, but definitely shook up.” Griffin Cummings, who was returning from a family vacation in Misawa, Japan, with her husband Forest and 2-year-old son Caden, says the whole situation felt “very unfair, very unjust” and she became fearful for her family’s safety when the altercation turned violent. David and Teresa, both doctors in Kentucky, were among the paid passengers on the flight who were offered up to $800 from United to give up their seats to airline employees who needed to board. Griffin Cummings says David and Teresa initially agreed to volunteer and they deplaned together. But the couple came back and returned to their seats “quickly.” When David was later chosen at random to leave the plane involuntarily, video footage shows him saying: “I won’t go, I’m a physician I have to work tomorrow, 8 o’clock.” She also says the majority of passengers were “in shock” after witnessing David being dragged off the plane — and equally as shocked by the United crew’s immediate response. “The pilot said, ‘Sorry for the delay and sorry you had to see that,’ ” she says. “That was the gist of the apology — ‘We’re sorry you all had to see that.’ Not, ‘We’re sorry we did this.’ ” Through his attorneys, the doctor filed paperwork on Tuesday in Cook County Circuit Court in Illinois saying he “believes it is crucial and essential” to preserve all surveillance videos, cockpit voice recordings, a full passenger list and any incident reports from the altercation. In addition, Dao wants the court to order United Airlines and the city of Chicago — which operates O’Hare — to preserve a full employee and crew list for United Express Flight No. 3411 on that date; descriptions of “the protocol of United Airlines in force and effect for the removal of passengers from commercial aircraft”; and the personnel files of the city’s aviation department police “who removed (Dao) from the plane,” according to the document. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Why are all those passengers upset at what they saw? Don't they know that all of this is the doctor's fault? I mean, they were eye witnesses. Surely they must be able to draw a conclusion based upon the events? How can they get it so wrong? What's wrong with this picture? ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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| Member |
http://www.latimes.com/nation/...-20170412-story.html | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
OK, let's try a different approach- explain to me, please, how this is relevent to the subject at hand. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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| Member |
Relevant or not, we at least ought to know the facts. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
Man, you have no idea, but you're walking in a mine field. Fair warning. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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| Member |
Isn't the very definition of an irrelevant fact that it's something we don't need to know in order to make an informed decision? That's why it's irrelevant. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
Chickenshit lawyer tactics ain't gonna work in this thread. Attempting to discredit the guy with this crap is not going to work. It's sleazy behavior and I won't stand for it. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
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Aller Anfang ist schwer |
All the facts of what? His past history has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on that plane. | |||
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