All you guys saying you will boycott United, two points, first you probably don't fly much so United won't care and two EVERY OTHER AIRLINE IN AMERICA has the same policy. Let me say that again. EVERY SINGLE ONE. You can argue that United should have kept bumping up the amount of comps but even that amount is legally capped by Federal regulation. True, they didn't get to that cap, but they weren't that far off.

Every airline in America, name your favorite, or in Para's case the one you hate least (I keed, I keed), and I can show you the stats of how many people they involuntarily bumped last year.

Some of you guys literally wrote that the airline should always leave open seats for the unlikely event that a situation develops where they need a crew somewhere else. It is tough to even justify this kind of thinking with an answer. Should they leave 2 seats always open? 4? 10?

As for driving the crew down to Louisville, that is a brilliant idea. Except that now when they get there they are either timed out or fatigued because they just friggin drove (I know they wouldn't be driving but the feds wouldn't recognize that distinction) from Chicago to Kentucky. There are a lot of ideas that may sound brilliant when you are typing them but they don't work. Hiring a plane? Not a lot of planes for random hiring at O'Hare airport. Airports and taxi stands aren't similar in many ways, this being one of them.

Once again I will ask. Are you pissed at United who didn't touch the guy or LE who busted his lip? I only ask because it seems LE is getting a free ride and United is getting pummeled. Pun. If you are mad at United why is LE getting a free ride?

Just as an aside and I know you guys won't believe this but your favorite airlines bump people against their will. Not very often but it happens. United isn't alone in this. The difference in this case is that this guy hunkered down and said "nope". If this guy makes any money for his actions you can guarantee he won't be the last person to say "nope" hoping for a payday.

You guys probably don't care but I and every other aviator on this board could come up with tons of reasons besides overbooking which didn't happen here btw, for why someone or many someones might have to be removed even though they bought a ticket. I give you a very simple one, one that every pilot has had. At push time you get a mechanical, one of your air conditioning packs isn't working. They can't fix it there but you can safely fly it. It forces you to fly lower though, you burn more gas, you are full, you remove cargo, still too heavy, you remove standby passengers, too heavy, you may get to the point where, wait for it.... You have to remove a paying customer. OR no body goes anywhere. Million scenarios like this. Or the United one where if the crew doesn't get there in a timely fashion, hundreds of people will be stranded. There isn't some magical bank of flight crews that are in their duty day and just happen to be in the right spot. That doesn't just happen miraculously.

I know, United sucks. Fuck them and their employees. It is in the contract you sign. Not because an airline wants to fuck you, it is in there because in an operation as complex as 5000 flight a day airlines shit comes up and they need the ability to come up with work arounds. Weather, maintenance, crew issues, airport issues, airspace, the Prez needs a haircut, and yes even overbooking. They put that in there because without the legal right to put you on the next available flight (with generous compensation btw) everyone would be sitting there staring at each other wondering why aren't we going anywhere.

I know I will soon regret posting again in this thread but there is a lot of incorrect or just plane bad information out there in the MSM and in this thread.

No, I'm not going to boycott United, because I no longer fly commercially.

As to the police, they were performing the task for which the airline contacted them and, as I said earlier in this thread, when the police show up, they're not going to back down or go away.
UAL set all of this in motion, both in their decision to bump passengers in order to board UAL personnel and for their subsequent handling of the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
... and two EVERY OTHER AIRLINE IN AMERICA has the same policy. Let me say that again. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here...If your business has a policy that kicks people off a flight that they paid for, did nothing wrong, and was not an act of God...then maybe it's a shitty policy.

But hey...they've gotten away with it for quite a while now. However, now it has brought attention to the matter. Maybe enough people will get pissed off enough that now the Feds will get involved. They may soon be reaping what they've sown. Or, maybe not. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
All you guys saying you will boycott United, two points, first you probably don't fly much so United won't care and two EVERY OTHER AIRLINE IN AMERICA has the same policy. Let me say that again. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Which is one of the many reasons people HATE flying these days.

Customers annoy us! We drag you from airplane!
Go away, customers!

pedropcola, can you provide evidence that carriers other than United have forcibly removed passengers? I'm referring to passengers who were minding their own business, weren't intoxicated, etc.

Brings back old memories...

It may be the policy, but they never do it. Maybe they never have to, or have had to so far.

The easiest thing to have done would have been to have everyone deplane with their belongings back into the gate area, on the ruse of mechanical issues etc. Then, after a slight appropriate delay, reboard everyone except the selected ones, who would raise hell but not have to be dragged out screaming on Youtube.

So, sitting on another United flight waiting to go across the country.

We had to switch planes because of a mechanical problem on the first plane. Problem now is this plane is smaller than the first. They needed 8 First Class costomers to move back to coach as FC is smaller. Few people accepted their $500 offer and a move to coach. Nothing like going from First Class to a coach middle seat.

Now sitting on the plane and the engine has its maintenance doors open. Let's see how long it takes to get this bird off the ground. Already 45 minutes late.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
pedropcola, can you provide evidence that carriers other than United have forcibly removed passengers?

There must have been many cases of paying, non-threatening customers who resisted being forcibly removed from their seats due to either overbooking or VIPs needing their seats. Why haven't we seen other videos of these people being dragged off the planes?

My guess is that with other airlines as well as other United gate crews probably found other ways to move their crews to destinations or simply pick someone else once they had encountered strong resistance or any other ways discussed in this thread. I am thinking that this particular United gate crew decided to go hardball here and played to the maximum extent that FAA rules had allowed them to do.

Maybe when airport police showed up, many resisters simply complied but this guy cannot be the first customer who resisted removal without even being a troublesome flyer.

Just read this one From a pilots wife

quote:

Originally posted by charlie12:
Just read this one From a pilots wife

i think its time to change the rules

Retired military here: Space "A" flight on a C-130 in a web-slung jump seat with an MRE box lunch sounds pretty good compared to flying United, or any other commercial carrier, since you don't get groped by the TSA pervs either.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
All you guys saying you will boycott United, two points, first you probably don't fly much so United won't care and two EVERY OTHER AIRLINE IN AMERICA has the same policy. Let me say that again. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

I'm telling you right now, this situation would've never happened on a Delta flight. Never. Would've. Happened.

quote:

Originally posted by charlie12:
Just read this one From a pilots wife

Wow, shes married to a pilot! Her opinion must be so relevant (she even mentioned the fine print!) . Not bashing you for posting it though charlie12, I just hate people like that smug woman. Its like being in the military and having some NCOs wife go on a power trip and yell at you for something on base-like her position as his wife means jack-diddly shit to you.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
Retired military here: Space "A" flight on a C-130 in a web-slung jump seat with an MRE box lunch sounds pretty good compared to flying United, or any other commercial carrier, since you don't get groped by the TSA pervs either.

I'm gonna ride with you, if that's alright.

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
Wow, shes married to a pilot! Her opinion must be so relevant (she even mentioned the fine print!) . Not bashing you for posting it though charlie12, I just hate people like that smug woman. Its like being in the military and having some NCOs wife go on a power trip and yell at you for something on base-like her position as his wife means jack-diddly shit to you.

I checked the daily Chicago to Louisville flights and there are many flights thru out the day, with a good number of airlines. United could've book their crew or the people kicked off on another airline.

quote:

I know, United sucks. Fuck them and their employees. It is in the contract you sign. Not because an airline wants to fuck you, it is in there because in an operation as complex as 5000 flight a day airlines shit comes up and they need the ability to come up with work arounds. Weather, maintenance, crew issues, airport issues, airspace, the Prez needs a haircut, and yes even overbooking. They put that in there because without the legal right to put you on the next available flight (with generous compensation btw) everyone would be sitting there staring at each other wondering why aren't we going anywhere.

I know I will soon regret posting again in this thread but there is a lot of incorrect or just plane bad information out there in the MSM and in this thread.

Do tell about this "generous compensation" Whenever I fly and they ask for volunteers I start at $800. Below that it's not worth the hassle. Also most times I've taken the bump and been told by the gate agent "oh we'll get you on the next flight" that's generally been a lie, and I end up on the last flight of the day in a middle seat between grandma farts a lot, and sweaty alcoholic. So "generous" is a relative term and the cap of $1350 is not in my book generous enough.

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:

quote:

Originally posted by charlie12:
Just read this one From a pilots wife

Wow, shes married to a pilot! Her opinion must be so relevant (she even mentioned the fine print!) . Not bashing you for posting it though charlie12, I just hate people like that smug woman. Its like being in the military and having some NCOs wife go on a power trip and yell at you for something on base-like her position as his wife means jack-diddly shit to you.

Other than that, is her account accurate?

Let's not let the cops off the hook on this one either. They beat the lips off a guy for what is essentially a civil contract dispute. That's not a proportional response to a non-resisting person in a civil context.

Everyone's relying on the fine print of the contract, but forgetting that when the fine print didn't go United's way, they called the cops, tagged the passenger as a disruptive, and used federal force to remove him. They didn't negotiate a better refund deal that someone on the flight felt like taking. There's an article out there about a family that got paid $11k, three nights in a hotel in NY, free meals and a full refund to not fly from New York to Ft. Lauderdale during the recent nasty weather. Delta took care of them. May be United could outsource their customer relations to Delta?

$400?
No.
$800?
No.
Ok, BAM! That's your face, and that's your face on armrest, bitch, now get off my plane.

I could use some pissed off federal agents to help me with some of my more contentious contract negotiations. There are a few counterparties I wouldn't mind seeing get beat.

Fucking idiots.

Idiot United employees and idiot cops. Sometimes you take a deep breath, and deal with things instead of moving directly to forceful compulsion.

Fucking idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by charlie12:
Just read this one From a pilots wife

All that typing for nothing. Well, perhaps we can take the Freudian point of view and say that all those words serve as a talking cure for her, so that means she may feel better after getting it out. I guess that counts for something.