^ When I fly solo for leisure, I often schedule things on the early side and pick times that make this scenario not only more palatable but also more likely. A free (future) round-trip ticket and/or some cash just for waiting 1-24hrs later is a great deal, to me, especially when ones exact arrival time doesn't matter much, though making sure you have flexibility in your accommodations and transportation in particular is important.

None of which excuses United's choices in this case, and all that...

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:....Some of you guys, I swear, are just something else sometimes. Did it ever occur to any of you that there are many flyers who pray for oversold situations just so they can get deals like these folks did? My brother happens to be one of them....

I have been "bumped" only once. They offered a voucher (convertible to cash) plus a ticket on the next flight later in the day. I took it. I had just spent the money (mentally) when they told me they had one seat left, it was mine, I didn't get the voucher. I also didn't get my original seat. I was seated on a row with a couple, each easily weighed over 300 pounds. I had barely enough space to breathe.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Yeah, sounds like they made out pretty well.

Some of you guys, I swear, are just something else sometimes. Did it ever occur to any of you that there are many flyers who pray for oversold situations just so they can get deals like these folks did? My brother happens to be one of them. He jumps at these opportunities because it allows him to travel more often on a very tight budget.

It is a great opportunity for some, others it is an absolute headache. I would much rather get where I had planned on being than getting plied with offers of grandeur for the inconvenience. Now, that is not to say that I wouldn't jump for the right offer, but someone had better make it worth my while, a few dollars and an upgraded seat just doesn't trip my trigger.

Being single with no obligations on the back end would possibly change my outlook but as it stands, if I am on an airplane, it's purely because I need to be on THAT airplane.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Did it ever occur to any of you that there are many flyers who pray for oversold situations just so they can get deals like these folks did?

I hate to admit it, but when I was in my late 20's, single, and working for a large tech firm, I used to fly all the time, and would specifically book tickets on flights in and out of New York I knew had a high likelihoods of overbooking on. I picked up many round trip tickets 'and' other incentives during those years. Now that I'm old, I've no longer have interest in such activities.

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
So? No one has been arguing that they shouldn't ask for volunteers and pay them to be bumped.

Actually, some seem to be making exactly that argument.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

None of which excuses United's choices in this case, and all that...

No, of course not. It's hard to argue that United (or their subsidiary which is the case here) made any good decisions regarding this passenger.

The arguments and discussions in this thread though have progressed far beyond the direct circumstances of United having a paying customer who's seated on the plane being forcibly removed.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:...Now that I'm old...

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:...It is a great opportunity for some, others it is an absolute headache...

Somehow, I understand those feelings.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
It doesnt appear much has happened since I last checked this thread around 11pm last night. Well...except my Mother being brought into it on page 24 (classy move) and JALLEN being poked and referred to as "Cochise" on page 28. Notice he hasnt been back. Can you blame him? Well, both my Mom and JALLEN are tough old nuts so Im not to concerned with either. Shame though.

We bumperd two people from my transcon flight this morning. Overbooked. Last I heard we gave them a 1st Class seat on the next flight and a $800 voucher. No cops. Done at the gate. Not entirely sure of the outcome though as folks have been trying to explain here, much of that is done previous with all the other moving parts to the system. I dont micro-manage. They have their job.

I noticed folks have discovered that the employees involved most likely weren't United, but rather an affiliate called Republic Airlines. This after trashing UAL employees. Point to ponder.

As someone who has watched this industry evolve (devolve?) for three decades now, I can tell you what is going to become of this.

Nothing.

Over the next week or so, it will fade away and be replaced by the next internet outrage. Im willing to bet that it wont go to trial after some less than tidy facts emerge. UAL and the City of Chicago will settle for a big check.

...And Spirit will still be selling $9 fares to people who show up to the airport barefoot.

For those of you racing about foreign carriers, as pointed out they are heavily subsidized by their governments. I doubt if we all would want to pay for that, although I have no issue with all of you paying my salary. Ever wonder how this incident would have played out on Emerates or Qatar if the same thing would have happened in say...Dubai?


I still got the best job in the world though. My office window shows me more in a day than most people see in a lifetime. I get paid to drive around $60M pieces of hi-tech machinery. I get compensated well to do it. Its still worth the BS.

It's great that you got everything sorted before it became a shit show by offering the solution to folks before they were in fact ON A PLANE. Still can't get past that little bit of information can you? As to who actually did this....it was UAL. It was their flight wasn't it? Nice deflection though. As to trashing UAL employees, not really. I think we slapped all the airlines' dicks in this thread. I would hope they find it in their best interests (the airlines) to take notice of what happened and learn from it.

I specifically called Jallen out because I felt that his one word response was a weak. No counterpoints, no rebuttal. It would be nice to see a persons train of thought if they have one. At least give me a reason of why you think I am wrong, don't just trail off and leave the rest of us hanging.

Sorry, I spent the afternoon, most of it anyway, at the pulmonologists, and was so worn out I haven't paid any attention to this foolishness until now.

Churchill said, "All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope, nonsense." I thought your examples were nonsense and said so, making up in eloquence what it may have lacked in specificity.

OK, I added that last bit to Churchill's otherwise memorable quote. Sorry.

4 statements by United on passenger's removal from flight

https://townhall.com/news/us/2...from-flight-n2313248

United Airlines has released four official statements in response to the backlash against the company since a customer was dragged from an oversold flight Sunday evening at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport.

The first three were from the parent company's CEO, Oscar Munoz. The fourth was posted on the company's website Thursday after a news conference by the passenger's attorneys.

First statement , released by the airline midday Monday:

This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers. Our team is moving with a sense of urgency to work with the authorities and conduct our own detailed review of what happened. We are also reaching out to this passenger to talk directly to him and further address and resolve this situation.

Oscar Munoz, CEO, United Airlines

****************

Second statement, sent to employees Monday evening:

Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411

. On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.

. We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.

. He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.

. Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.

. Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.

******************

Third statement , sent to employees Tuesday afternoon:

Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It's never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what's broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We'll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar

*******************

Fourth statement , posted on the company's website Thursday:

We continue to express our sincerest apology to Dr. Dao. We cannot stress enough that we remain steadfast in our commitment to make this right.

This horrible situation has provided a harsh learning experience from which we will take immediate, concrete action. We have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what's broken so this never happens again.

First, we are committing that United will not ask law enforcement officers to remove passengers from our flights unless it is a matter of safety and security. Second, we've started a thorough review of policies that govern crew movement, incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. Third, we will fully review and improve our training programs to ensure our employees are prepared and empowered to put our customers first. Our values - not just systems - will guide everything we do. We'll communicate the results of our review and the actions we will take by April 30.

United CEO Oscar Munoz and the company called Dr. Dao on numerous occasions to express our heartfelt and deepest apologies.

^^^

That tells me that this incident will not simply be relegated to the dusty corners of the Internet, but will have impact that brings about change in the way air carriers do business with the passengers who fill the coffers.

So much greatness has been lost in this country in the past eight years, and from the top down, we all had some of the poison, like it or not.

I hope this is just one of the many things that are pushed back to their reasonable and proper place.

And yes, all of it will be painful to some degree, but worth the pain, every bit.

quote:

That tells me that this incident will not simply be relegated to the dusty corners of the Internet, but will have impact that brings about change in the way air carriers do business with the passengers who fill the coffers.

I hope that you are right. I am not that optimistic about businesses doing the right thing. Thank you for your optimism. {Not intended to be sarcastic}

No sarcasm taken.

As has been noted by others, and admitted by myself.

I am a very cynical and jaded person, not so much a pessimist as a step son of Murphy.

But, I long, hope, pray, work and strive for the best of the best, and prepare for the other.

And every once in a while, I see three bars. ===

Ka-ching!

Geez and I thought trying to catch a flight from Bagram to Kuwait and sleeping on the floor of the terminal for 2 days was rough!

This thread has been one hell of a read.

I suspect the check made to Mr. Dao will have 6 zeroes.

Still hard to see how anyone could defend what UAL and the security guys did. Lots of ego here with the "I'm the CAPTAIN!!!" and other bits.

Flying is just a pain in the ass. First you get there 2 hours early, parking is expensive, you have to deal with the TSA (Totally Stupid Assholes) then you have airlines who treat you like shit and security guys who get off on their "power." I bet if those fools had guns they would've shot Mr. Dao.

I don't know why they want them to carry guns inside the secured areas. Passengers don't have guns there and the security has strength in numbers and are supposedly trained. Just power hungry assholes looking for more power and separation from the common man, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
They got a free $1000 upgrade from their coach seat to the next flight in 2 hours, along with $800 flight credit and a $50 breakfast voucher. I think that at that point of the day, 1st Class is a 3-course lunch and champaigne. We've been consistantly named #1 domestic airline for overall service in Candi Nast for I believe the past 6 years running. We do a good job.

That might be true, if you are arrogant enough to assume they don't give a jolly fuck for arriving where they planned to, when they planned to, and paid good money to achieve.

For sane mortals, this is just a complimentary BJ on a comet on a collision path.

How about we don't design our "service" model around statistical screwing of our customers?

They volunteered to be bumped my friend.

VOLUNTEERED.

From what I understand, FIVE came up to VOLUNTEER. We took the first two.

For someone who has never met me, you sure do toss a lot of adjectives around about my character.

Have a nice night now.

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
They volunteered to be bumped my friend.

VOLUNTEERED.

From what I understand, FIVE came up to VOLUNTEER. We took the first two.

For someone who has never met me, you sure do toss a lot of adjectives around about my character.

Have a nice night now.

I think that's been the exact point made several times in this thread.

If you need to bump people, you can provide incentives so that they voluntarily to give up their seats. You don't arbitrarily choose people and then have some rent-a-goons bludgeon them into submission.

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:

We bumperd two people from my transcon flight this morning. Overbooked. Last I heard we gave them a 1st Class seat on the next flight and a $800 voucher. No cops. Done at the gate. Not entirely sure of the outcome though as folks have been trying to explain here, much of that is done previous with all the other moving parts to the system. I dont micro-manage. They have their job..

Soo... More customers fucked because of overbooking. Just these ones knew their lowly place and slipped away with no fuss for all the royal majesty airline employees. Good for them, they learned from this whole incident what happens to customers who don't behave....

They got a free $1000 upgrade from their coach seat to the next flight in 2 hours, along with $800 flight credit and a $50 breakfast voucher. I think that at that point of the day, 1st Class is a 3-course lunch and champaigne. We've been consistantly named #1 domestic airline for overall service in Candi Nast for I believe the past 6 years running. We do a good job.

If I was traveling for personal reasons, I'd take that deal in a NY minute. Heck, for only 2 hours I'd do it for the 1st class seat and a breakfast voucher.

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
They volunteered to be bumped my friend.

VOLUNTEERED.

From what I understand, FIVE came up to VOLUNTEER. We took the first two.

I respect your posts, which I assume are a reflection of you. By the transitive property, then, I respect you. Without implying anything one way or the other about the content of your posts in this thread, I would really like to suggest it's time to unplug. The horse isn't just dead, the carcass has been picked clean and the rodents are gnawing on the desiccated bones.

DrDan,

Nothing truer in this thread has been spoken. You are 1000% correct.

You have a great night too...

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
They volunteered to be bumped my friend.

VOLUNTEERED.

From what I understand, FIVE came up to VOLUNTEER. We took the first two.

For someone who has never met me, you sure do toss a lot of adjectives around about my character.

Have a nice night now.

Oh. My bad. Volunteered.

I may have muddled a sane free-market exchange where your airline made things right(ish?) with folks as opposed to calling someone to drag them off the plane. Sorry.

I think we've established the position of our pilots enough that I can retract any adjectives from my post.

adjective-redacto!

edit - wouldn't this all be so much more fun if we could gather in ATL and hash it out with padding and fight-gloves? I "know" a guy to referee!

editedit - I have always appreciated and enjoyed entropy's insight as much as many others! I expect to again once he gets his finger out of our eye....

After careful review, no adjectives were directed at you. How do y'all see this everywhere in the shadows, fact or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

edit - wouldn't this all be so much more fun if we could gather in ATL and hash it out with padding and fight-gloves? I "know" a guy to referee!

The first rule of Flight club is don't talk about Fight club....