quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
So, the Doctor and/or his wife both have valid driver's licenses and would be comfortable driving that distance? You know this...how?

Are we through with the rationalizations, excuse-making and non-sequiturs, gentlemen?

Hey Para, Are you referring to my post? I am talking about the crew. They had time to drive and still be there in time to rest.

Yes, sorry. It's already been suggested in this thread that the guy should have driven to his destination. I thought this was more of the same. My apologies.

"There are passengers they don't touch..unaccompanied minors, splits of families to name two classes."

I didn't see anything where they tried to involuntarily deny the Drs wife. She was on the plane too.

(can't be certain on this. just didn't see anything where she was kicked off too)

NewtoSig.....unless you are a grand flame-baiter, you are out of your phukking mind to implicate the flight crew.

Out
Of
Your
Phukking
Mind

Balze covered it about the rest rules. You guys just don't get it and it's not as simple as you think. It's about a 2 hour conversation for which I don't have the time. I'll just remove myself from the insanity of this thread, as it's really not worth popping another Benicar over.

Stephen Covey had a great habit for highly effective people..."Seek first to understand, then seek to be understood." Lots are ignoring the first part.

I'm out. Gotta put on my brass knuckles for my next flight anyway, and it's a BITCH typing in those things.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Yes, sorry. It's already been suggested in this thread that the guy should have driven to his destination. I thought this was more of the same. My apologies.

Absolutely no worries!

Page 34 and still going strong. Remarkable.

Soon we won't have any pilots helping us to understand......

If you can't bring yourself to actually spell a curse word correctly, why even use it at all? ^

What are we, 12? Come on, folks. Use your grown up words. We're all adults here.

/drift

quote:

Soon we won't have any pilots helping us to understand......

I will just read the Carriage contract again and the Federal regs. regarding proper rest time.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
If you can't bring yourself to actually spell a curse word correctly, why even use it at all? ^

What are we, 12? Come on, folks. Use your grown up words. We're all adults here.

/drift

It's jive. You understand jive.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
NewtoSig.....unless you are a grand flame-baiter, you are out of your phukking mind to implicate the flight crew.

Out
Of
Your
Phukking
Mind

Balze covered it about the rest rules. You guys just don't get it and it's not as simple as you think. It's about a 2 hour conversation for which I don't have the time. I'll just remove myself from the insanity of this thread, as it's really not worth popping another Benicar over.

Stephen Covey had a great habit for highly effective people..."Seek first to understand, then seek to be understood." Lots are ignoring the first part.

I'm out. Gotta put on my brass knuckles for my next flight anyway, and it's a BITCH typing in those things.

So...the crew could not have driven, even a hired car, the 4 or so hours and not been cool to fly the next morning?

I say bullshit. The math seems simple. Leave Chicago at 4:30...Louisville at ~9. The hotel was booked already, correct? Sleeping by ~10. I found the FAA rules...8 hours of rest. I did not look for the definition of rest other than the rules stating "opportunity to rest". So, sleep actually seems optional. Seems to me they could rest in a car or a bus or a plane. What's the difference? And if rest is defined as sleep then how is that monitored? Is there a device inserted somewhere?

Or ...charter a plane to take them.

Not that any of this matters, but don't act like it's so difficult to comprehend. Do have it entirely correct? I probably do not, but that particular crew would have certainly a chance to rest 8 hours - seems like at least 15, based on the timeline, even had they teleported in right from another flight.

What's really easily to comprehend is that this will cost United millions of dollars.

I hope the silly regulations and union contracts make some of you sleep better at night.

You want this thread locked again?

Because, THAT is how you get a thread locked. . .

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
You want this thread locked again?

Because, THAT is how you get a thread locked. . .

Just a little humor. I'll remove it.

Here's how I see it. The man bought an airline ticket and was sitting in the plane minding his own business. He was not obscene, loud or causing any disturbance as far a we know. United wanted his seat, the seat they had sold him because they had employees that needed to be somewhere and it is their policy to overbook and then remove passengers who had already bought a ticket. When the doctor decided that he wasn't going to accept Uniteds offer to leave the plane they called the police and the Aviation Police (NOT the Chicago Police ) responded. Because they apparently do not know the law and think that they work for United, they decided to remove this man using whatever force they decided they needed. They were wrong. IMHO these guys will be lucky to stay out of jail. Had they worked for me I and done this I would have given them an ass chewing of historical significance.Then I would have filed a internal complaint against them. I hear all this talk about contracts, carriage clauses yada,yada,yada. That is all meaningless. The man bought a ticket, committed no criminal act and his rights were then violated by United and the wannabes at the Department of Aviation Police because United had a policy. United's policy or rules do not superceed the law and or the Constitution. These "coppers" allowed themselves to be used by United. All they accomplished was they made the doctor a rich man, they will lose their jobs, they may incurr thousands of dollars in judgements and they MAY end up in jail.

Btw. There is controversey here in Chicago about the Department of Aviation Police being unarmed at the airports. There is a reason for that. Now perhaps you will understand why.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
"There are passengers they don't touch..unaccompanied minors, splits of families to name two classes."

I didn't see anything where they tried to involuntarily deny the Drs wife. She was on the plane too.

(can't be certain on this. just didn't see anything where she was kicked off too)

She was on the aircraft. There's one video that I think shows her following the drag off.

"His wife Dr. Teresa Dao, was sitting a row back and across the aisle, according to Griffin Cummings. She followed her husband off the plane, but came back to grab their carry-on luggage — “not crying, but definitely shook up.”"
http://people.com/human-intere...n-after-altercation/

I worded my post very poorly.

I had read that the wife was on the plane.

What I was attempting to say was that I had not read that she too was ordered off of the plane.

The general story was that 3 people agreed to get off, but the 4th (the doctor) would not get off. So it appears the airline was splitting the husband/wife pair.

WRONG Protein...

Minimum 10 hours of rest from the end of duty to the start of the next duty period with the stipulation that the crew has the opportunity for 8 hours of SLEEP.

It's irrelevant what is said from this point forward, as most are ready to play jury, judge, and executioner on this one. Have to run...Gotta don my brass knuckles for the next flight, as the passengers are boarding. LUCKILY no one has crossed us today, so we haven't had a beat down yet, but we have 2 more legs. I need my safe space with crayons and bubbles.

I missed it, but did the 4 UAL employees get where they needed to be on this flight and on time? I'd find it imteresting and ironic if they took some other means to Louisville or didn't get there on time.

Shit I work 12 hours and don't even get a meal break...I chose the wrong profession.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
WRONG Protein...

Minimum 10 hours of rest from the end of duty to the start of the next duty period with the stipulation that the crew has the opportunity for 8 hours of SLEEP.

It's irrelevant what is said from this point forward, as most are ready to play jury, judge, and executioner on this one. Have to run...Gotta don my brass knuckles for the next flight, as the passengers are boarding. LUCKILY no one has crossed us today, so we haven't had a beat down yet, but we have 2 more legs. I need my safe space with crayons and bubbles.

erj_pilot, I won't argue with you about the specifics of 'crew rest,' since you are an expert on the subject and I am not.

However, I would greatly appreciate if you (or any other industry expert) could weigh in on the following. I have been part of this thread since Page 1, and I haven't seen any good answers to these questions yet:

What about OTHER options for getting that crew to St Louis?

Would a rental car trip really violate crew rest, based on when they would leave and arrive, and when the flight was scheduled for the next day?

How about a chartered bus or limo (riding; not driving)?

Did United even TRY to get their crew on ANOTHER airline?

Did they explore ANY OTHER options before deciding to forcefully eject passengers?


What cheeses so many of us off is United's attitude. I will go so far as to agree, for the sake of the argument, that they HAD TO get this crew to St Louis. However, bumping (and inconveniencing) PAYING CUSTOMERS from an already fully boarded flight seemed to be their go-to action. Did they TRY other options?

UAL will lose a crap-ton of business over this because they demonstrated total and utter disregard for their customers. As I stated earlier, it was a 'screw you' strong-arm approach. They don't seem to 'get it' that most travelers don't pad their schedules with days before and after planned events, be it weddings, business meetings, or other vacation events, in the event we get bumped. We need to be there Monday morning; we schedule a flight arriving Sunday afternoon/evening. Suppose those bumped had cruise line reservations for the next morning? Or a wedding, a funeral, a graduation, or other event that can't be postponed/delayed? The doctor explained that he had patients to see. UAL didn't care.

You have a certain perspective as a pilot, having to deal with a lot of crap from many idiot passengers. However, we have another perspective; that of non-idiot passengers who are sick and tired of the decay in service in the modern air travel industry. I suppose neither of us can really understand the perspective of the other.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I missed it, but did the 4 UAL employees get where they needed to be on this flight and on time? I'd find it imteresting and ironic if they took some other means to Louisville or didn't get there on time.

Many pages ago, I think somebody posted that they DID get the 4 crewmembers seated and to their destination on time (they were apparently boo'd as they boarded and took the seats of the ejected passengers).