quote:

The presidential campaign...I don't know what to say really. kind of a catastrophe. A few things got me:
1) flip flop on Ukraine. Smells of donor fluffing...they need Him not the other way around
2) recent 2020 election fraud dismissal...is well just a stupid thing to do. ignoring the topic was better or pivot to the stricter election laws in Florida that yield...results Smile
3) campaign pushes anti-woke vs his COVID record...I don't understand why not both at least

Yep, you are right.
He's appealing to donors rather than the people.
The social issues are just a smoke-screen. The donors only care about economic issues and Trump is much more America First. DeSantis is attempting to appeal to MAGA voters on social issues and his globalist, Wall Street donors on economic issues. It's not working.
Their only chance is to knock Trump out of the race.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Their only chance is to knock Trump out of the race.

And even that is not much of a chance. If Trump is not the nominee, millions will simply stay home, thus assuring another Democrat "win". A sizable number of people will not vote for anyone else.

This is what is concerning for me. If the commies are able to take out Trump (figuratively or literally...and I put NOTHING past them), we lose. There is nobody else in the running who can win a general election IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
He's appealing to donors rather than the people.
The social issues are just a smoke-screen. The donors only care about economic issues and Trump is much more America First. DeSantis is attempting to appeal to MAGA voters on social issues and his globalist, Wall Street donors on economic issues. It's not working.

More than 85% of DeSantis campaign funds are from corporate and Super PAC donors, less than 15% from grassroots individuals. Trump's campaign funding is the exact opposite, more than 85% from grassroots, less than 15% from corporate/PACs. And it doesn't take a genius to figure who is beholden to citizens and who to corporations/PACs, and who is the true MAGA candidate.

Desantis is absolutely full of shit about supporting American energy independence. FPL and Nextera are spending billions on Chinese solar and battery arrays here in FL. I wonder what sort of kickbacks the donor class are getting from these Chinese solar deals?

If they were serious about energy independence we'd be planning more coal and nuclear generating capacity. But they aren't.

Carbon free Florida Grid by 2045

quote:

Originally posted by HKAngusKL:
Desantis is absolutely full of shit about supporting American energy independence. FPL and Nextera are spending billions on Chinese solar and battery arrays here in FL. I wonder what sort of kickbacks the donor class are getting from these Chinese solar deals?

If they were serious about energy independence we'd be planning more coal and nuclear generating capacity. But they aren't.

Carbon free Florida Grid by 2045

I hear ya. This is an example of issues that get under my skin. Wish he did more about this, but fighting the EPA and the NRC on nuclear plants alone is...well gonna cost the tax payer. meanwhile FPL gets a huge subsidies for this solar/wind GARBAGE...not sure how to sell more public funds to fight other public agencies about that. A Federal deconstruction of both agencies (DOE/NRC and EPA) requires congress and a president as well as new laws to repeal old ones..on and on.
Georgia just got the green light on 2 reactors (eventually) that are gonna help power Florida too...lol after 23 years of 0% NRC approval for new reactors while bleeding funds with inspections/rejections on many others to failure or bankruptcy. We all may find out the hard way when continuous duty cycle power output starts falling below power demand..oh wait.

back to thread sorry. DeSantis can say a lot of things, I still think it will dawn on him that the donors and consultants need him 500X more then the other way around. Even if he ends up not fulfilling a single promise from a campaign...say what you mean sir. Incompetent pollsters and donor kingmakers are the wrong audience, always have been. Ask Jeb.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

FL resident here, DeSantis has been an incredible governor but his actions and missteps in the last year running for President are making me reconsider my support for him as governor, never mind president.

I’m off the DeSantis train.

Oh come on. I get not supported him for president, but get a grip. When it comes to governors, there's been no one even close. Seriously, wtf?

When you get an uber squishy sack of shit republican like Spencer Cox as your governor, then give me a call.

He’s been a damn good governor through COVID, but post COVID (and presidential campaign), I don’t like his focus. From signing “transparency/anti-discrimination” laws overseas, to focusing a ton of time in anti-woke measures (needed: yes. Are there other priorities that are arguably more pressing: definitely).

He’s good, but I can call out his bullshit as a Florida resident and voter. Accepting that he isn’t a pile of crap isn’t the standard I hold politicians to.

He is in over his head, I just don't know if he realizes it yet. When he started out I was interested, but now I'm not sure how he could get out with all of his investment of political capital, money, and his supporters. If I were him I'd do what others have mentioned, help Trump, get back to his job in Florida, and work in the background for the next cycle. And between now and then, for lack of a better term, grow up a little more personally and professionally, get a better handle on big boy politics, and chill. This is easier to do after more time in service more years under your belt. Usually. I like the man, but he's more like a teenager running for high school president. He's just not ready. I'd hate for him to cave dealing with the likes of Xi, Putin, and the like. Trump is old enough and experienced enough and smart enough and jaded enough to handle real shit, I'm not so sure about Mr. Desanctum. But going in to the future, yes, IF he grows up and resists the temptation of the swamp and all the shit that draws and corrupts at the same time.

This cracks me up. Trump in 2016 was polling lower than DeSantis is now. And those are national polls, which mean nothing in electoral politics.

We haven't even had any debates yet. And while an absolute travesty, we don't yet know the effects of the persecution/prosecutions of Trump will be.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

^^^There were 10+ legitimate contenders (14?) in the race/running in 2015 (and early in 2016 once the Primaries got rolling) w/ no clear front runner at the time. Trump is a VERY Clear front-runner, and his lead margin is multiples of everyone else in the field. Do you 'really' think Trump will lose ground once we've had some debates? There's NO comparison to 2015/2016 here!

quote:

We haven't even had any debates yet. And while an absolute travesty, we don't yet know the effects of the persecution/prosecutions of Trump will be.

That is true. It's going to be a long year.
Ron DeSantis probably knows he can't win the nomination with Trump in the race. He's hanging on, trying to remain relevant and in a strong 2nd place. I'm sure the GOPe folks are telling him Trump won't be there to finish.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Usually. I like the man, but he's more like a teenager running for high school president. He's just not ready.

DeSantis knows exactly what he is doing. It's not a matter of his inexperience anymore, it is a matter of personal integrity, and IMO, he has thrown that out the window. He is now on that side of the room with Pence and Christie, guys who ran with MAGA, and has tossed and betrayed it. And his position as the #2 candidate on the Republican side is extremely shaky at best, someone else rising to that slot is very likely before the end of the year. He is not MY #2 or #3 choice for that matter. DeSantis' real political character became crystal clear to me in recent months, and I used to like him.

I just want to see Pence get trounced and booed at the debate he's now qualified to attend. Talk about a delusional douche. He's not going to peel away any Trump voters, and even if he got to a strong #2 spot in the primary, obviously, Trump wouldn't think of picking him as VP again. His donors must really hate money.

Ron DeSantis jumps the shark
By Monica Showalter

I've been a fan of Ron DeSantis for a long time, given the great job he's done as Florida governor and the results of it leading to Florida becoming a red state.

I've been willing to overlook his errors, e.g., too much emphasis on the trans issue, the extended fight with Disney, the flip-flopping on Ukraine, the idiots on his campaign staff, the ill-timed and unwinnable campaign against President Trump -- because his successes outshine these stumbles.

But he's gone over to the dark side in his recent remark that the election of 2020 was fraud-free.

According to the Epoch Times, citing the New York Times:

As reported on Aug. 4 by The New York Times, the Florida governor and 2024 presidential hopeful levied his most harsh attack to date against GOP frontrunner and former President Donald Trump, saying the allegations that the 2020 election was stolen were "unsubstantiated."

"All those theories that were put out did not prove to be true,” NY Times quoted Mr. DeSantis saying in response to a reporter’s question following a campaign event at a brewery in Northeast Iowa.

That's a view in contradiction of what most Republicans and a sizable chunk of Democrats think.

After that, DeSantis went into many of the reasons it's reasonable for voters to think the 2020 election was stolen:

Mr. DeSantis also said in comments directed at Democrat-run states, "The way you conduct a good election that people have confidence in, you don't change the rules in the middle of the game. You don't ballot harvest. You don't do Zuckerbucks."

He added that colluding with agencies like Facebook "to censor things," like the story about Hunter Biden's laptop is "unfair" and that the election was not conducted in the way he would want to see it done in the United States of America.

In a post on social media, Federalist editor-in-chief Mollie Hemingway said the characterization of the response by Mr. DeSantis was "completely false" and "misleading," insisting that the Florida governor "has spoken out consistently and acted against the private takeover of government election offices, unsupervised ballot ops, rushed changes to law, etc."

So which was it -- all free and fair, the way Jimmy Carter used to say of Venezuela's elections, or an utterly flawed election that was stolen from Trump? He's saying Joe Biden was what voters really wanted and all 81 million of those votes he got were legit?

Obviously, he thinks Trump is wrong and Joe Biden won 2020 fair and square, with the corollary view that the majority of Republicans who agree with Trump are idiots.

They're idiots for thinking that all the things that DeSantis himself cited -- the Zuckerbucks, the repression of the news about Hunter Biden's laptop, the ballot harvesting, the junk-mail balloting, the unmanned mail drops, the changed and ignored statehouse rules -- somehow, despite everything, yielded a free and fair election?

Is he saying that there was no "secret bipartisan campaign to save the 2020 election," as Molly Ball famously bragged about in her Time magazine piece? DeSantis sounds like he's actually onboard with that 'bipartisan' element, meaning, the Jeb!/#nevertrump fringe, even though it's pretty obvious he wouldn't allow that crap go on in Florida.

And that's problematic.

One of his finest selling points to voters in his record as a governor is that none of the shenanigans that went on in other states -- from extended counting, to junk mail balloting, to weird midnight shifts in direction in the counting, to ballot-harvesting, to dirty voter rolls -- went on in Florida.

If there was no fraud in the 2020 election, why were these reforms important? How can they be selling points? DeSantis undercuts his own argument that there was no fraud just by the example of his own record in his own state. How's he going to sell that to voters now? If all was free and fair, then maybe these reforms aren't important, is that it?

What an own-goal.

There were other problems that also scream of fraud:

There was that odd stop in counting ballots around 2:30 a.m. in multiple states, which resumed with a sudden change of voting direction across the board for Joe Biden; There were those incidents where ballot counters went "home for the night" as if that were normal in a hotly contested election -- and then they didn't go home for the night -- recall those rolling suitcases in Atlanta once the observers were gotten out of the room. There was that weird act by Fox News insistently calling Arizona for Biden despite the numbers on screen contradicting that, as if the nevertrumps there knew something we didn't. There were the election observers blocked in Philadelphia despite a court order allowing them in, and the election observors blocked from observing even from a window in Detroit as pizza boxes were pasted over them to ensure they saw nothing. There was the truck driver who testified to driving his truckload of ballots from state to state. There were the unverified signatures, and the uncreased ballots, and the ballots filled in with just Joe Biden's name as if done in haste. There were the dirty, filthy voter rolls, left unaddressed as states blocked the Trump administration from attempts to inspect them earlier in the race.

What are we to make of this other than massive fraud on a scale unseen outside the worst of the third world?

Sarah Hoyt at Instapundit has some particularly prescient observations:

SO, IS HE DISINGENUOUS, MATHEMATICALLY ILLITERATE, PSYCHOLOGICALLY OBTUSE OR ALL OF THE ABOVE? DeSantis Says Trump’s Election Fraud Theories ‘Did Not Prove to Be True’.

1- What we saw on election night 2020 is completely impossible without fraud. (BTW I personally know one of the poll watchers who was locked out of the polling place when the fraud happened.) 2- For it to not prove to be true, it would need to have been examined, in a rational way. Not you know, run the same faked ballots through the machines and announce all is honky dory. Also courts would have to give someone, even, you know, other states “standing” to challenge it. 3- given vote by mail ever state or election goes left. It’s a miracle, right? 4- These people don’t behave like they won the election. Psychologically, if they knew they won, they would facilitate investigations and allow talk about it, as Bush and Trump did. They behave like con men who don’t want the con discussed.
So, he’s either a moron, a liar, or has been lied to or thinks we can be lied to. Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’d vote for him against Biden, otherwise the wrong lizard will win. But the gilding is cracking on this one. We don’t need another W. Or worse, another Pierre Delecto.

Who the heck could disagree with that in any capacity?

The biggest problem with DeSantis's statement is that he believes he can get elected in this atmosphere as Trump couldn't, and no reforms would be necessary. DeSantis seems to think that this fraud machine wouldn't do to him what it did to Trump, based on, oh, his nevertrump links or something.

That's hard to believe, and even if I am wrong, a Ron DeSantis who becomes a President DeSantis will therefore sweep these problems with the elections under the rug

I can't support someone who thinks that.

That's too much. DeSantis has jumped the shark.

https://www.americanthinker.co...jumps_the_shark.html

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

We haven't even had any debates yet. And while an absolute travesty, we don't yet know the effects of the persecution/prosecutions of Trump will be.

That is true. It's going to be a long year.
Ron DeSantis probably knows he can't win the nomination with Trump in the race. He's hanging on, trying to remain relevant and in a strong 2nd place. I'm sure the GOPe folks are telling him Trump won't be there to finish.

I think this is the plan, and JMO he should have stayed out of the race until the final judgement if you will, on Trump happens. If Trump is eliminated by being convicted on one or more counts in the multiple of trials he won't get the nomination from the party.

DeSantis steps in and is the nominee, if not, he'll have built up a war chest of money for the next election in 28...

quote:

Originally posted by HRK: If Trump is eliminated by being convicted on one or more counts in the multiple of trials he won't get the nomination from the party.

I think the opposite is true. A conviction would guarantee he gets the nomination.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK: If Trump is eliminated by being convicted on one or more counts in the multiple of trials he won't get the nomination from the party.

I think the opposite is true. A conviction would guarantee he gets the nomination.

It will push more support for him from his followers/supporters no doubt. However, the R party may not allow a convicted felon to run on the platform, it has little to do with how many people like or would vote for him

^^^Well, if it comes to that, it will be a great opportunity to kill off the GOP once and for all.

quote:

However, the R party will not allow a convicted felon to run on the platform, it has little to do with how many people like or would vote for him

The RNC will have a real problem on it's hands. Some will want to disqualify him, but others will realize that it's suicide for the party if they do so. It will be ugly if that happens.

https://prod-static.gop.com/me...Republican_Party.pdf

When I worked at the RNC during the '96 cycle, people called in every day accusing us of sabotaging Pat Buchanan or trying to prop up Bob Dole. But I never saw anything suggesting that was true. I really think they let the primary process play itself out. Sure, Dole was a super weak nominee, but I think he won the primary fair and square. I can't think of anything the RNC could do to peel support away from Trump. Hell, Trump is what keeps the lights on over there even now. If they tried to sabotage him, they'd be out of business in no time. Unlike the Dems, the GOP is not run from the top down.