Alright, fair enough. Sounds like he may not have the brass. It all starts tomorrow … should be interesting.

Andrew Bailey, the Missouri AG, is getting ahead of the DeSantis announcement today:

Andrew Bailey: I’m proud to be one of the first AGs in the country to endorse Donald Trump. Soros-backed Woke prosecutors all over the country are hurting our nation, and we need an America First fighter as our president to set things right. Let’s go!

I wish DeSantis would gracefully declare he will remain governor and wish Trump the best of luck for his 2nd presidential term. If he continues to push, I don't know if I would vote for him 2028. Strategically, its a bad idea for him to go 1v1 when Trump is the presumptive nominee.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

DeSantis will have little to no time doing his governor duties, it will be a full time job running for POTUS, plus he will work overtime trying to do battle with Trump.

And one interesting thing with DeSantis; his supporters have a bizarre notion that he will appeal to women voters, and moderates overall, which is puzzling. DeSantis just last month signed legislation to ban abortions beyond six weeks, has signed off on a number of LGBT bills, and his battle with Disney. These actions do not endear himself much to the above demographics. I guess his supporters think having no mean tweets will result in the ladies lining up to vote for him.

I am a fan of DeSantis but I wish he would sit this one out too. I’ve made that position clear multiple times. That doesn’t look like it’s going to happen which is disappointing.

But threatening to not vote for him in 2028 if he enters this primary race seems pretty extreme.

Maybe, but the very thought of him pulling a Ross Perot and letting Biden stay in the White House seriously bothers me. If he does that, you can bet people will hold a grudge.

quote:

Maybe, but the very thought him pulling a Ross Perot and letting Biden stay in the White House seriously bothers me.

Who is 'him'? Please identify who you are talking about: Trump or DeSantis?

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
^^^^^^^^^^^^

DeSantis will have little to no time doing his governor duties, it will be a full time job running for POTUS, plus he will work overtime trying to do battle with Trump.

And one interesting thing with DeSantis; his supporters have a bizarre notion that he will appeal to women voters, and moderates overall, which is puzzling. DeSantis just last month signed legislation to ban abortions beyond six weeks, has signed off on a number of LGBT bills, and his battle with Disney. These actions do not endear himself much to the above demographics. I guess his supporters think having no mean tweets will result in the ladies lining up to vote for him.

He did pretty well with women in Florida. Including getting 49% of the unmarried women’s vote and tying Crist with 47% of female voters aged 18-29. In the 40+ age range DeSantis dominated among female voters. LGBTQ isn’t voting Trump or DeSantis and make up a pretty small portion of the population.

The Disney fight affects Florida voters more than anyone yet he just crushed the Florida governors election. That’s clearly a non-issue.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Maybe, but the very thought of him pulling a Ross Perot and letting Biden stay in the White House seriously bothers me. If he does that, you can bet people will hold a grudge.

No shit.

Yeah, of course there are 5 years before 2028. He could absolutely do something stupid between now and then that would influence my vote. Simply running isn’t enough to influence my 2028 vote and I’m not going to be a pessimist and start getting angry with him for something he hasn’t done yet.

ETA: my bad, the statement was “if he continues to push”. Perhaps I misinterpreted that to mean “if he runs”.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

He did pretty well with women in Florida. Including getting 49% of the unmarried women’s vote and tying Crist with 47% of female voters aged 18-29. In the 40+ age range DeSantis dominated among female voters. LGBTQ isn’t voting Trump or DeSantis and make up a pretty small portion of the population.

The Disney fight affects Florida voters more than anyone yet he just crushed the Florida governors election. That’s clearly a non-issue.

I'm speaking nationally. He might be fine in Florida, but on a national stage, that is a different story. Like I posted, signing off on the recent abortion bill is something that can turn off middle of the road voters and women. Same with the LGBT shit. Moderates ARE NOT conservatives- they tend to have left leaning social tendencies and more conservative on economic ones.

Of course, it’s impossible to compare the two. But Trump certainly isn’t going to pull anymore of the women’s vote or LGBT vote than DeSantis is. Don’t think for a second that the media won’t reinforce that Trump is the one who nominated two SCOTUS judges prior to Roe being overturned.

Nobody knows how DeSantis will do nationally. Everyone, and I mean everyone, is simply guessing. But there is at least some proof that DeSantis has support of a large portion of women. And remember it’s not a popular vote. He doesn’t have to appeal to women in California or New York. He’s just got to appeal to enough in a few states.

You’re right about LGBT, but again Trump isn’t winning any of those votes either.

I'm thinking the liberals including all media are going to inadvertently promote Trump because they think they can beat him in the general.
Then after nominated they will do an about face and start to tear him down.
There is more fodder in their opinion to tear him down too and the NYC bogus charges is the tip of that iceberg.
DeSantis isn't going to get any help from that group - liberal media cartel so he is on his own.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Who is 'him'? Please identify who you are talking about: Trump or DeSantis?

DeSantis, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
No shit.

Yeah, of course there are 5 years before 2028. He could absolutely do something stupid between now and then that would influence my vote. Simply running isn’t enough to influence my 2028 vote and I’m not going to be a pessimist and start getting angry with him for something he hasn’t done yet.

ETA: my bad, the statement was “if he continues to push”. Perhaps I misinterpreted that to mean “if he runs”.

Look, where my head is with this is basically that we on the right don't do what the one thing the left does correctly, and that's stick together and show a unified front when it's go time. This thing between the two of them may start off civil, but it is going to get ugly. All DeSantis has to do is damage Trump with enough shit that sticks for the people who would actually just otherwise vote for him and we're looking at a long term party split we don't need. He wouldn't even have to do something stupid, all he has to do is run like he wants to win, which means a slugfest with Trump. It does neither of them any good, and both candidates will be damaged with each other's respective electorates. An agreement should have been hammered out some time ago to have DeSantis either sit this one out, or run as his VP. Instead, he's opting for a course of action that will likely further fracture the party, and I don't feel it's pessimistic to say that. To me, it's no different than saying the sky is blue. DeSantis will indeed have to walk a very fine line he wouldn't have had to if he'd opted to wait.

It's been almost four years since the unified coalition to stop Trump succeeded, and none of the traitors who took part in that ouster are yet loved by anyone who is a hardcore Trump fan. They never will be. DeSantis is needlessly risking putting himself in that camp.

Here's a Mark Dice video I just watched, and I can't find him saying anything I disagree with.
*Edit- smschulz beat me to it*

Has everyone forgotten what primary season is?

This isn’t “go time”. It’s the primary. I agree we need to be unified as a party when the actual election comes up but I think it’s okay to weigh a few options upfront. If Trump is the candidate everyone thinks he is then why worry? How about we take a few months and see what happens?

And by the way, Trump has been attacking DeSantis since a couple weeks before the gubernatorial election. He had zero reason to start attacking him that early and that close to his election. His attacks have been mainly calling him childish names, lying about DeSantis’s Covid response, and Trumps supporters have even tried to get DeSantis suspended from office without any comment by Trump. Because yeah, the best thing for America is to get DeSantis suspended.

If the primary gets nasty it’s not going to be started by DeSantis. Nobody seems the least bit upset that Trump is attacking DeSantis but everyone sure seems mad about the possibility of an attack the other way. Are you really worried about the party being split because if you were I think you’d be at least a little pissed at Trump for his attacks, specifically the timing of some those attacks.

I don’t know. I really like Trump and I’ll be voting for him in the primary but I guess I’m not at the point where I think we should just continue to run him indefinitely and also demand that nobody on the right dare to even think about challenging him. I think it’s okay if a few other people get into the race during primaries.

quote:

DeSantis, of course.

OK.
But I don't think either one, Trump or DeSantis, would pull a Ross Perot and run 3rd party. We've seen that before and yes, it would help Biden and the Democrats.

I don't yet have a horse in this race. It's just starting. I will watch with interest as it plays out.

Ron DeSantis wouldn't run as an independent. It would be political suicide for him. He'd lose and would forever be blamed. There would be no further political victories for him, and he's a young guy. Suicide.

Donald Trump would run as an independent if it came to that. With every fiber of his being, he is sure the 2020 election was stolen. It's now or never. Donald Trump is a man who doesn't back down. What has he got to lose?

This is coming from a staunch supporter of Donald Trump, so take it for what it's worth. I'm not the opposition, trying to talk down on the man. If you think he wouldn't run as an independent, you don't know Donald Trump.

However, I don't think it will come to that. I believe that Donald Trump will be the nominee.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Has everyone forgotten what primary season is?

No, this is where we all disagree about who is the best fit and how they handle the fracas. That's what we're doing here because it's just warming up.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
If the primary gets nasty it’s not going to be started by DeSantis.

I believe it will, and when it's over, who started it will matter less than what happens during the course of it. Probably to most people. It will be the clips and the soundbites, the quotes. It won't be "Trump started it."

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Are you really worried about the party being split because if you were I think you’d be at least a little pissed at Trump for his attacks, specifically the timing of some those attacks.

I don't think I've heard from anyone saying it was a good look. I know I didn't. It's been pretty universally castigated as one of those "dude, you could have just said nothing" moments. When I posted my prior comment, I read it over and told myself "you know the party is already split, there's the Lincoln Project and the Never-Trumpers, et al" and then I thought to myself "everyone knows that, 'further fracture' should suffice in terms of acknowledging that." Being a Trump voter or a DeSantis voter wasn't a mutually exclusive thing prior to the mid-terms. In fact, I'd argue that it was more likely the other way around. Clearly Trump saw him as the only credible threat to re-election and being a flawed human being, went ahead and attacked him early on. However, being loyal to Trump and also human and flawed, I'm willing to overlook that because I think we need him back in office - I'm being honest about my bias. While Trump is still in play for the presidency, we will not be a united party. It isn't going to happen. That's the bare truth. However, it didn't have to be a Trump vs. DeSantis thing and yet that's what it became. It might yet have been smoothed over if DeSantis had decided to sit it out and wait four years to solidify his achievements as governor of Florida. The instant the others in the 2016 primary weren't a threat, they weren't attacked any further. Well... except for maybe Jeb, but fuck him and that whole neocon dynasty anyways. Anyways, instead of that happening here, DeSantis is going to get in this thing now and deprive Florida of what he could do for them by splitting his attentions not long into his renewed tenure, and if the race goes bad for him, possibly damage his 2028 bid.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I don’t know. I really like Trump and I’ll be voting for him in the primary but I guess I’m not at the point where I think we should just continue to run him indefinitely and also demand that nobody on the right dare to even think about challenging him. I think it’s okay if a few other people get into the race during primaries.

I'm not saying I don't think anyone should dare, but I am saying by now that everyone stepping up to that plate ought to expect to get thrown at. Whether that's a good or bad thing about Trump is a conversation people have had for years now, but at this point, it's a given. I think it would have been best for DeSantis to wait, attempt to smooth things over with Trump and try to secure some sort of mutual alliance and endorsement, but that's not the way it shaped up, for either our benefit or our detriment. It remains to be seen. I think he has every right to do whatever he wants, just as Trump has every right to go after him. I'm not, however, going to cheerlead all of it. I don't have to support or oppose someone's actions in the course of trying to analyze what downstream consequences they may have.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
How about we take a few months and see what happens?

Yes. That's the reasonable thing to do, but it isn't going to stop people from speculating and discussing. That's all I was doing here.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
But I don't think either one, Trump or DeSantis, would pull a Ross Perot and run 3rd party. We've seen that before and yes, it would help Biden and the Democrats.

[...]I will watch with interest as it plays out.

As will I. We're all just stating possibilities. It's easier for me to imagine it happening than some, and that's fine. To Para's point, Trump only ran with the Republicans because that was his only shot in a two party system at making it into office, but he is assuredly an independent and not a party-line guy. If anyone was going to go 3rd party, it would be Trump.

I'm not saying the sky is falling, I'm just saying there's thunderheads on the horizon and the weather will be interesting to watch, whatever happens.

quote:

Donald Trump would run as an independent if it came to that. With every fiber of his being, he is sure the 2020 election was stolen. It's now or never. Donald Trump is a man who doesn't back down. What has he got to lose?

However, I don't think it will come to that. I believe that Donald Trump will be the nominee.

While I agree that Donald Trump would be more likely to run as an independent than Ron DeSantis, I also don't think it will come to that. It's Trump's to lose. He's way ahead at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
...

Well we are clearly on the same side here and I respect your view of the matter.

My biggest concern about Trump has always been his ego and his temper. I truly believe that he loves this country and that he wants most of the same things for it as I do, and I truly believe he’s the absolute best candidate to get those things done. It’s just that his ego and his temper distract him from accomplishing those things.

I too wish Trump and DeSantis could have been on the same team the entire time. But I’m not going to blame DeSantis for not trying harder (publicly at least) after Trump started attacking him in October. Plus we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes either. Their camps might be in regular communication. One thing I know about Trump is that he plays the left and the media like a fiddle. While I do not think they are currently working together, absolutely nothing would surprise me.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Well we are clearly on the same side here and I respect your view of the matter.

Likewise.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
While I do not think they are currently working together, absolutely nothing would surprise me.

Yeah, same.