Couple points. The term anti vaxxer has always referred to people who believe childhood vaccines that have been used for decades, in some cases over half a century, are harmful. Specifically they cause autism, developmental issues, etc etc. Think Playboy model turned virologist. Applying that term to people waiting for long term efficacy and problems as anti vaxxers is tantamount to call people nazis. The poster is doing it to gain a reaction nothing more. The actual word/terminology is wildly misused but kidcop (ironic) is attempting to do just that. Silly, childish, ignorant response.

As for anyone getting a vaccine, I think that is a personal choice. It certainly and unarguably comes with risks. This is a fast tracked drug with no long term data. None of that is debatable. In the Navy they gave us all kinds of shit before deploying. The last I remember was the anthrax “vaccine”. First time I heard large scale grumbling. I don’t like being the test ship. If you do, that’s fine.

You can’t manufacture data. Getting one of these vaccines is riskier than getting a flu shot. Merely because there is no long term data.

My youngest daughter got it at college. 20, healthy, in one of the safest categories out there. If she had asked my opinion I would have suggested waiting. She didn’t but it’s her life and her decision, as it is yours.

quote:

Originally posted by kidcop:

Parse the phrase anti-vaxxer. If you are against the vaccine, you are by default an anti-vaxxer. No name calling involved. It is what it is.

Now you're being intellectually dishonest. You're not fooling anyone.

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The facts do indeed stand on their own. Look at the high efficacy rates and low adverse effect rate from the three vaccines.

You know what works even better in relatively young, healthy people? Their own immune systems. And that's not hyperbole. It makes zero sense for a majority of people under 40 to get this shot with the facts we have today.

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ALL vaccines were at some point "experimental." These have been through clinical trials and proven safe enough to be given approval for emergency use.

More intellectual dishonesty. But you knew that.

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Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I haven’t been following this thread closely, but from scanning the past few pages it is clear the pro experimental vaccine crowd struggles to engage in constructive debate.

I'd say it's not a struggle so much as a lack of motivation. I got vaccinated and really don't care if you do or not. My reasons for doing so have nothing to do with being a boot-licking communist who worships Fauci. My risk-benefit decision may be entirely different than yours and I have no reason to convince you otherwise.

If you aren’t trying to compel me with force, cool, no problem, I have no issues with you making your own choice. Why even comment? Clearly my comment was not directed towards you if you’re not engaging in the behavior I spoke about. If your own personal risk calculus led you to choose this vaccination, I am genuinely happy you had the opportunity to do what you judged in your best interest.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by kidcop:

Parse the phrase anti-vaxxer. If you are against the vaccine, you are by default an anti-vaxxer. No name calling involved. It is what it is.

Now you're being intellectually dishonest. You're not fooling anyone.

quote:

The facts do indeed stand on their own. Look at the high efficacy rates and low adverse effect rate from the three vaccines.

You know what works even better in relatively young, healthy people? Their own immune systems. And that's not hyperbole. It makes zero sense for a majority of people under 40 to get this shot with the facts we have today.

quote:

ALL vaccines were at some point "experimental." These have been through clinical trials and proven safe enough to be given approval for emergency use.

More intellectual dishonesty. But you knew that.

Good reply Balze. I’m glad you did, I’m not going to engage. A trick some people use is misrepresenting an opposing position, name calling based on the misrepresentation, then forcing the burden on the other party to disprove the false accusation.

It’s an unhealthy conversation tactic, something Psyops units do during wartime; not something diplomats do during negotiations because it only leads to increased conflict. The entire race baiting industry of Rev Sharpton is built on this nonsense, and my conclusion is those tactics are used when a position cannot convince listeners based on merit.

Racist, white supremacists, climate denier, and now anti-vaxxer are phrases used exclusively to beat others into submission. It is intellectually weak to break people rather than educate them; but I suppose if the end goal is mobs shouting insults to compel mass compliance it is a useful tactic. I just want no part in it and have no respect for those who do.

I am not an anti-vaxer. In fact, I have three vaccinations in 2021 already. All 3 were FDA approved and time-proven. (Shingles, Shingles booster and 10-year Tetanus update)

I have read a few comments recently that the 3 new experimental Covid injections are now proven? After 4-5 months?

Here is a question for a few SF members that work in scientific professions. Do most clinical pharmaceutical trials fail immediately or 1-2 years down the road? Or further along?

Maybe those who say masks work can explain this:


https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru...recommendations.html


March 1, 2021

CDC - Public Health Guidance for Community-Related Exposure:

Individual who has had close contact (within 6 feet for a total of 15 minutes or more).

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Note: This is irrespective of whether the person with COVID-19 or the contact was wearing a mask or whether the contact was wearing respiratory personal protective equipment (PPE)

If masks work, then why does the CDC not care if you were wearing a mask during the exposure period? Exposure is impossible since masks work, right?

And if masks don't matter, and it's the distance and time of exposure that matters, why do you need a mask at Walmart? You within 6 feet of somebody there for a total of 15 minutes?

Then again, perhaps that's why we have never heard of a major SUPERSPREADER! traced back to Walmart.

It is important for individuals to have access to ALL the data available in order to make informed decisions regarding any medical intervention, but especially for an experimental one.

For example, the ABSOLUTE Risk Reduction (AAR) for the Pfizer vaccine based on the clinical trial data is 0.7%, while the RELATIVE Risk Reduction (RRR) is 95%. RRR is also reported as "vaccine efficacy". For Moderna, the numbers are 1.1% ARR and 1.1%, RRR. A simple way to wrap your head around what these numbers mean in the real world is to look at the NNV or the number needed to vaccinate to prevent 1 infection. For the Pfizer vaccine, the NNV is 142 (95%CI 122 to 170). For Moderna, the NNV is 88 (95% CI 76 to 104). To put the above numbers into perspective, based on a a 2018 review of the data for the annual flu vaccine, its ARR is only 1.4% with a RRR of 60.8% and works out to an NNV of approximately 72. So, comparing the various vaccines it seems that the mRNA vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 are less effective in the real world then flu vaccines.

Importantly, we have many years of long-term safety data for influenza vaccines. We have ZERO long-term data for these experimental non-classical vaccines.

I obtained the above data here: Outcome Reporting Bias (R.B. Brown)

The Brown paper is informative reading and based on current vaccine trial data, basic math and epidemiology.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I haven’t been following this thread closely, but from scanning the past few pages it is clear the pro experimental vaccine crowd struggles to engage in constructive debate.

I'd say it's not a struggle so much as a lack of motivation. I got vaccinated and really don't care if you do or not. My reasons for doing so have nothing to do with being a boot-licking communist who worships Fauci. My risk-benefit decision may be entirely different than yours and I have no reason to convince you otherwise.

In other words, you weighed the risks and made a personal decision, just as it should be for everyone when it comes to masks and vaccines. Last time I checked we supposedly live in a free country.

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Originally posted by SIG228:
Last time I checked we supposedly live in a free country.

I'd suggest you check again.

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Originally posted by rburg:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:
Last time I checked we supposedly live in a free country.

I'd suggest you check again.

Amen to that.

I recently got tattled on at work by someone who felt I was not wearing my mask enough which resulted in a talking to.

I explained to my boss that yes, sometimes I forget because it is not FUCKING NATURAL for humans to cover their air holes 24 hrs a day..That went over like a turd in a punch bowl.

This is where we are at folks. Ratting on each other over a useless face diaper.

I do believe my Grandfather fought a war over something like this. He's up in heaven now doing the mother of all eye rolls over what we have become.

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Ratting on each other over a useless face diaper.

You know why secret police agencies like the East German Stasi were so effective? No shortage of snitches.

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Originally posted by egregore:

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Ratting on each other over a useless face diaper.

You know why secret police agencies like the East German Stasi were so effective? No shortage of snitches.

Hope they feel proud of themselves. Fuck up someones income over an ineffective face diaper? True American hero.

It's been over two weeks and I'm still speechless over how someone can justify doing something like this.

Little chickenshit bugs. I need a good long deep breath and a hearty FUCK YOU to everyone associated with this.

quote:

Originally posted by Beancooker:
While I think the OP has a point, I’m just waiting to see how far this thread makes it, before it turns into a complete shitshow of arguing about masks and complaining about Covid.

At least this question got a definitive answer.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:
Last time I checked we supposedly live in a free country.

I'd suggest you check again.

The USA is nothing more than a free range tax farm and the free portion is shrinking.