After all these pages, the OP's question still seems a mystery to me. So much seems plausible.

The Diaspora. The Other, spread through most of the nations of the world. They keep their tradition as a means of self-preservation, and this excludes them to varying degrees in the different societies.

To those who hate them, they are perceived as the ultimate outsiders.

This stuff about how Jews killed Jesus- that's not exactly true, and even if it were, that's not why anti-Semitism exists. Don't fool yourself.

The history of the Jewish people really fascinates me, they were dispersed from Israel and scattered all over the world to be persecuted and in some places exterminated.There was always a remnant that existed on Earth.

Then suddenly after thousands of years they are allowed to once again return to their homeland and reestablish Israel. I don't think this would have been possible without Divine intervention. And this was forecast to happen in the bible.

And if you believe the bible the Jewish people will once again be at the center of future events,and only a remnant will remain.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
There isn't a Jewish gene. A Polish Jew's genes look just like a Polish Catholic's.

Israel, and other groups, fund lots of research on Jewish genetic diseases. There are PLENTY of Jewish genes - also some Welsh ones/Icelandic ones/PA Dutch, etc. A Polish Jew's genes test like a Ashkenazi Jews genes, not a Poles. AKA, why many rabbis require genetic testing before marriage. (Undergrad was in Genetics and biochem. Had to do a paper on... some disorder or another inherent to Ashkenazi Jews.)

The main issue I heard of, against Christians, was an inability to buy land. Not sure if that's still active, or not.

chongosuerte, read James Michener The Source. It will answer a lot of your questions. Though it is not an easy read at over a 1,000 pages.

quote:

Originally posted by spexet:
This is an area where I think a lot of people have problems...the notion of a special, chosen people who have some kind of instantaneous claim on God's blessing. How many "Jews" of today actually have a genuine biological bloodline going back to Abram (Abraham)? It is argued that many of the current sects of Judaism might be some sort of spiritual progeny, but they are no more descendants of Abraham than any other average person.

When thinking about this question, keep in mind that this alleged family relationship is the basis for many worldly issues. The United States and the United Kingdom (Britain) put modern day Israel on the map. Do the Jews really have a valid claim on Palestine? Or, are they really just a crafty, resilient people who are fantastic at playing the sympathy card?

It's good food for thought, that's for sure.

"This is an area where I think a lot of people have problems...the notion of a special, chosen people who have some kind of instantaneous claim on God's blessing." They don't understand it becasue this is what they believe and it isn't true. It's not a biblical truth or teaching. It's not being Jewish that gets one into a proper relationship with God, it's being righteous.

Biblical jews had no "instantaneous" claim on anything. God raised up a people to himself. God's promised blessings on this people were conditional. If they obeyed his commandments, his statutes and loved him and honored him he would bless them and their land. When they did, HE did. When they didn't, He didn't. Go through the bible, proof of this is everywhere. Jews didn't get God's favor if they did not do what He told them. If they didn't, they paid the consequences. Quite a lesson for the rest of mankind. And that was the purpose.

The bible makes is clear that jews, by birth, have no special rights with God. The bible tells us that the the "seed of Abraham" are not necessarily jews, but rather the faithful, who could ultimately be anyone. Abraham's righteousness came through faith, not through birth. It's a lesson of the bible. Through faith, we become children of God. God's entire family, with the exception of Christ, his only BEGOTTEN son, is by adoption. We are adopted into the family of God by faith. Without faith, we have no claims to God. A jew without faith in God, who goes through life machanically adhering to his worship routines, is no better off in God's sight than than an pagan barbarian. The jew's genes make him nothing. This is the lesson of the bible. The righteous are God's people. And the righteous are righteous by faith, not by who they are or what they do.

“But the righteous man shall live by faith.” Romans 1:17

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
"Jewish is a religion" = wrong.
Judaism is a religion.

this.

To add to Q's (and others') point....I'm checking in with my formal education in Anthropology. Family bonds, kinship bonds, tribal bonds, religious bonds, ideological bonds....all different reasons for "community" as we know it.

It is possible to be Jewish by cultural heritage and Catholic by religion. Or, you can be Anglo by culture and Jewish by religion. Or, African-American by culture and Jewish by religion.

You cannot by default associate religous dogma with bonds of kinship or tribal group

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
The Europeans are far too civilized to openly engage in antisemitic intimidation and violence. Thus, they import millions of known antisemites to act as their proxies.

They claim to be surprised by the predictable result. But it buggers the mind to believe that it is anything but deliberate.

And their solution? Import millions more.

Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

That's how I interpreted the comment. I'm skeptical.

quote:

Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

I would kindly suggest that when it comes to immigrants, no religious group has clean hands. For example, here in the United States a lot of Democrat leaders in Congress are Jewish. They have supported immigration of all sorts of peoples into the country, and constantly fight Trump's efforts to clean it up.

However, in my own state of Minnesota, Lutherans took on a leading role for bringing in the Somalis. In Germany, Angela Merkel is being blamed for all the migrants, and she is Lutheran if I am not mistaken. Pope Francis is big on immigration, and he is of course a Catholic.

I'm sure that there are a lot of obscure political and social goals that are being hidden, but one might just as well blame it all on "cat lady" syndrome. Just like the little old lady in every neighborhood who feeds all the stray cats, you have "do-gooders" in every country who puts out the national welcome mat in a misguided effort to take care of the poor and the indigent.

Technological advancement made it possible to move people in bulk (ocean-wide shipping). And so just like we can move cars and TV sets across the seas, do-gooders are willing to move stray human beings from one place to another. Rather than fight for their own societies and struggle to build them up, somebody will take the short cut, and move them to Spain or Italy for instant gratification (jobs and welfare). Just like stray cats getting a free meal, courtesy of the cat lady. Just as stray cats often bring filth, disease and other problems to the neighborhood, so do the immigrants.

And just as many of the neighbors would like to see the crazy cat lady go away, many would like to see Merkel and the other politicians go away...anything to make it all stop.

quote:

Originally posted by spexet:

quote:

Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

I would kindly suggest that when it comes to immigrants, no religious group has clean hands. For example, here in the United States a lot of Democrat leaders in Congress are Jewish. They have supported immigration of all sorts of peoples into the country, and constantly fight Trump's efforts to clean it up.

However, in my own state of Minnesota, Lutherans took on a leading role for bringing in the Somalis. In Germany, Angela Merkel is being blamed for all the migrants, and she is Lutheran if I am not mistaken. Pope Francis is big on immigration, and he is of course a Catholic.

I'm sure that there are a lot of obscure political and social goals that are being hidden, but one might just as well blame it all on "cat lady" syndrome. Just like the little old lady in every neighborhood who feeds all the stray cats, you have "do-gooders" in every country who puts out the national welcome mat in a misguided effort to take care of the poor and the indigent.

Technological advancement made it possible to move people in bulk (ocean-wide shipping). And so just like we can move cars and TV sets across the seas, do-gooders are willing to move stray human beings from one place to another. Rather than fight for their own societies and struggle to build them up, somebody will take the short cut, and move them to Spain or Italy for instant gratification (jobs and welfare). Just like stray cats getting a free meal, courtesy of the cat lady. Just as stray cats often bring filth, disease and other problems to the neighborhood, so do the immigrants.

And just as many of the neighbors would like to see the crazy cat lady go away, many would like to see Merkel and the other politicians go away...anything to make it all stop.

And all these religious charities who were SPONSORING immigrants were being paid big bucks by the US government to do it.How many would have done it without the big payout?

For the love of money is the root of all evil.

quote:

Originally posted by spexet:

quote:

Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

I would kindly suggest that when it comes to immigrants, no religious group has clean hands. For example, here in the United States a lot of Democrat leaders in Congress are Jewish. They have supported immigration of all sorts of peoples into the country, and constantly fight Trump's efforts to clean it up.

However, in my own state of Minnesota, Lutherans took on a leading role for bringing in the Somalis. In Germany, Angela Merkel is being blamed for all the migrants, and she is Lutheran if I am not mistaken. Pope Francis is big on immigration, and he is of course a Catholic.

I'm sure that there are a lot of obscure political and social goals that are being hidden, but one might just as well blame it all on "cat lady" syndrome. Just like the little old lady in every neighborhood who feeds all the stray cats, you have "do-gooders" in every country who puts out the national welcome mat in a misguided effort to take care of the poor and the indigent.

Technological advancement made it possible to move people in bulk (ocean-wide shipping). And so just like we can move cars and TV sets across the seas, do-gooders are willing to move stray human beings from one place to another. Rather than fight for their own societies and struggle to build them up, somebody will take the short cut, and move them to Spain or Italy for instant gratification (jobs and welfare). Just like stray cats getting a free meal, courtesy of the cat lady. Just as stray cats often bring filth, disease and other problems to the neighborhood, so do the immigrants.

And just as many of the neighbors would like to see the crazy cat lady go away, many would like to see Merkel and the other politicians go away...anything to make it all stop.

I think this is the actual reason. I have a friend in Germany (now teaching at a German college) who believes that Germans are also still trying to atone for WWII and Nazism, so they tend to err on the side of any "humanitarian" relief efforts. In short, they mean well, but aren't really helping much, and causing themselves much grief in the process.

I likewise cannot believe that there is any desire to import proxies to persecute Jewish people.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:...

I likewise cannot believe that there is any desire to import proxies to persecute Jewish people.

Yeah, that's some Alex Jones worthy stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:And all these religious charities who were SPONSORING immigrants were being paid big bucks by the US government to do it.How many would have done it without the big payout?

For the love of money is the root of all evil.

That's it right there. Collecting a fee per head and then dumping them on the counties after 3 months. Yeah right! Three months to integrate into a COMPLETELY foreign culture. It's not like an Englishman moving to MN.

quote:

Rather than fight for their own societies and struggle to build them up, somebody will take the short cut, and move them to Spain or Italy for instant gratification (jobs and welfare). Just like stray cats getting a free meal, courtesy of the cat lady. Just as stray cats often bring filth, disease and other problems to the neighborhood, so do the immigrants.

Bingo. Great point.

The areas these people are coming from aren't improved by the mass exodus of people, any more than Europe is improved by taking them in.

How do you fight tyranny? Not by running away.

The United States to a very significant measure was born of immigrants seeking religious freedom, freedom from oppression, economic opportunities, educational opportunities, respite from war etc. We are ever better for their contributions. These groups of individuals helped to define an essential part of who we are as a society. In my opinion, we are one of the greatest nations on earth as a result.

So many of our immigrant populations were similarly described horribly and unfairly as unwashed, ignorant, uneducated, criminal etc.

quote:

The United States to a very significant measure was born of immigrants seeking religious freedom, freedom from oppression, economic opportunities, educational opportunities, respite from war etc. We are ever better for their contributions. These groups of individuals helped to define an essential part of who we are as a society. In my opinion, we are one of the greatest nations on earth as a result.

So many of our immigrant populations were similarly described horribly and unfairly as unwashed, ignorant, uneducated, criminal etc.

If the story of immigration was only that simple and that noble, then things would be very different. In previous times, immigrants had to make it on their own. Nowadays, immigrants are transported into various countries and set up with free stuff. In the meantime, the native citizenry works harder and harder for an ever-decreasing share of pie, while their betters proclaim how great they are because of all the immigrants they are bringing in.

Sooner or later, the piper will be paid. Everything has a price.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
The Europeans are far too civilized to openly engage in antisemitic intimidation and violence. Thus, they import millions of known antisemites to act as their proxies.

They claim to be surprised by the predictable result. But it buggers the mind to believe that it is anything but deliberate.

And their solution? Import millions more.

Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

Deliberate, indifferent, willfully ignorant, or merely inept?

The consequences are the same.

And in my experience, there is more antisemitism under the surface in Europe than is commonly acknowledged.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
The Europeans are far too civilized to openly engage in antisemitic intimidation and violence. Thus, they import millions of known antisemites to act as their proxies.

They claim to be surprised by the predictable result. But it buggers the mind to believe that it is anything but deliberate.

And their solution? Import millions more.

Are you saying that you think Germany (or Italy, France, or Greece) has allowed middle-eastern immigrants as a way to import people who will persecute Jews?

There are many things that people do without conscious purpose. In the same way that we are constantly accused of "subconscious bias" there is also the phenomenon of "unexplained affinity". No German would say "I import Middle Easterners to help hate the Jews."....but on the other hand, they seem to accept an aweful lot of them without complaint; and the Islamic countries were NAZI allies in WWII.

Jes' sayin'....

quote:

Originally posted by spexet:

quote:

The United States to a very significant measure was born of immigrants seeking religious freedom, freedom from oppression, economic opportunities, educational opportunities, respite from war etc. We are ever better for their contributions. These groups of individuals helped to define an essential part of who we are as a society. In my opinion, we are one of the greatest nations on earth as a result.

So many of our immigrant populations were similarly described horribly and unfairly as unwashed, ignorant, uneducated, criminal etc.

If the story of immigration was only that simple and that noble, then things would be very different. In previous times, immigrants had to make it on their own. Nowadays, immigrants are transported into various countries and set up with free stuff. In the meantime, the native citizenry works harder and harder for an ever-decreasing share of pie, while their betters proclaim how great they are because of all the immigrants they are bringing in.

Sooner or later, the piper will be paid. Everything has a price.

This is correct and accurate.