quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
That's higher than sales tax. That's off the table.

Requiring something like that on all would be at best unfortunate. I dunno if it would be possible to have such a service available as an option.

I could see how a new seller or a new buyer might be willing to eat the cost for the first few transactions to build a reputation.

For those that have been around, it would likely be an unused option.

It could save some greedy folks from scammers - greedy guy, “Wow, sounds great! I’ll take it and pay for the escrow option.” scammer, “Nah, I don’t do escrows.” greedy guy, “Well bless your heart!”

I dunno, it has been a long time since I’ve spent time in the classifieds. Too much cool stuff not available in the communist paradise from which I have yet to extricate myself.

Regardless of what you decide about the classifieds Para, thank you for opening “your home” to us, and for your ongoing efforts to make and keep it a Fantastic place!

Para, you have every right to do anything you want with this site. You have been more than generous. That being said, I'll sure miss the Classifieds. mike

In all my years of forum deals, I've only ever gotten burned one time and that was a guy who was a fraud and took a lot of money from a lot of people on a "pre-order" for things he was making (but apparently was all a scam).

I've sent as much as $13K via a cashiers check and USPS for a machine gun based on a forum sale. I've never gotten burned from a normal type deal.

Why? Forums operate via "big boy rules" i.e. caveat emptor. Ask for proof of life pics, only send via safe methods if unknown seller, use google to stalk/research/vet the seller, etc.

Sad to see Classfieds here are being shuttered but certainly understand why. I think it's a bit of an over-rotation on the issue at hand (no forum moderator or admin should be considered held responsible for a member's inabilty to take responsibility for their own role in being taken advantage of). If a deal is too good to be true, it almost always is.

Thanks Para for giving us the space for like-minded sellers/buyers/traders...I've gotten some nice things here and also helped others fill holes in their collections or get them the things they're missing (random parts, mags, etc)

I can only imagine the work involved. I am grateful however, as I’ve found a few items I might not have and been able to sell when I needed to.

All good deals. Some items have been purchased that turned into gifts to me, and I’ve been able to return the favor from a WTB add or two myself.

For all of that, I say thank you. I will continue to enjoy the forum and try to contribute where I can.

Thanks for putting up with it as long as you did sir! It was a a good run!

Have not read all 9 pages, but I am sure someone has mentioned a feedback score for sellers? When I first started selling on GB I would reference my eBay account as it has high 100% feedback.

If the Classifieds stay, what do you all think of a sticky with suggestions on steps to take to avoid being scammed? I am sure we have some folks who don’t know what generally constitutes best practices.

Escrow is off the table. PMs- well, that's a good idea for Classifieds but a bad idea in general. I may be a dinosaur but at least I'm a T-Rex. Not even those short little arms slow me down.

The forum software does not allow for a post threshold. That is to say, I can't plug in a number, say 300 posts, and make it so no member with less than that value can post in a particular section. I could do this via permissions- create a group into which all new registrants go (which would not allow them to access or access but not post in Classifieds), and then a separate group for other members, but this would be a manual process for me, moving members from one group to the other at the appropriate time, and what a pain that would be. Talk about lots of work...

Setting that aside, there could be simple enforcement of a policy of 'You are not allowed to use Classifieds until you have X number of posts and have been here X amount of time'. That's feasible but it would require additional staff members for enforcement.

Let me tell you a couple of things about adding moderators to a board like this- first, new moderators want to, well, moderate. They are eager to do the job and to show that will do a good job, and early on, they jump the gun. They fail to realize that minimal moderation is best, and they fail to realize that they don't need to look for reasons to intervene; the shit will come looking for them before too long.
I'll get emails from them about things that don't matter and I am old and surly and want to be left alone. Also, and in all seriousness, when you become a moderator here, it changes my relationship to you in the forum. I don't want anyone who I trust enough to do such things here, to feel like they have to kiss my ass. When I gain a moderator, I lose that member as, well, a member. I don't want that, but it may be necessary if Classifieds is to survive.

Lastly- and some of you may already know this because I said it here a long time ago- I won't accept any volunteers for moderator positions. I have to choose candidates and ask them if they wish to be a mod.

Why? Because no one in their right mind would be eager for a job that pays nothing and that sets them up to be criticized and insulted by some less than cooperative members, and in which all the glory goes to the owner or admin. A person would have to be a bit nutty to want to do such a thing. Trust me on this.
So, all of that mean I have to solicit trustworthy members to do a thankless, unpaid job, which alters their relationship to the forum.

We could have a member's army of sorts- members who use Classifieds, assisting with making sure everyone who uses Classifieds knows and adheres to the rules, but that leads to "Who the fuck are you to tell me anything? Are you a moderator? No? Then, piss off."

I'm not overthinking this. I've been at this a long time, in more forums than just this one, though that's now in the past. I've considered all these things.

I know I said I would have an answer today, which, uh, is now yesterday in my time zone. I won't say I'll have an answer tomorrow, because tomorrow never comes. I'll let you know today, but later today, which is not and cannot be tomorrow, except in relation to yesterday. Of course, in Central, Mountain and Pacific zones, it's still today err yesterday. Very confusing.

Haven't used the classifieds for quite a while. I did buy my 2 Sigs here, used. It was a pleasure dealing with both of the members. I sold some stuff here I think in 2016 as I was short of cash. It's like anything else, you always tend to assume things will go on forever. If I get hard up enough to sell a firearm, I'm sure I'll find another way.

The way things are going out there now, it's highly unlikely I will give up anything that shoots anytime in the near future anyway. I'd sooner sell a kidney.

For some reason I just feel compelled to post this blast from the past…




Just waiting to hear the final decision

This is very sad..when people abuse or are just stupid….. it’s very sad.. Thank you Para for affording us this luxury this long..Seriously, Thank You..

Curious about a feedback option? Is it possible without too much work?

Why bother trying to protect people from themselves? If you get 'scammed' who's 'fault' is it really?

So, don't make any attempts to stop this stuff from happening here? Don't bother caring, don't offer advice, guidelines, or benefit of experience in order to mitigate these thefts? Just do nothing, and let people get ripped off- is that what you're suggesting?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by parabellum:

Setting that aside, there could be simple enforcement of a policy of 'You are not allowed to use Classifieds until you have X number of posts and have been here X amount of time'. That's feasible but it would require additional staff members for enforcement.

Well its early and I have only had one cup of coffee. Hoping I don't put my foot in my mouth but here goes.
Aren't we all kinda defacto "staff members"? I have seen members educate and re-direct users in the past regarding their posts.

We could have a member's army of sorts- members who use Classifieds, assisting with making sure everyone who uses Classifieds knows and adheres to the rules, but that leads to "Who the fuck are you to tell me anything? Are you a moderator? No? Then, piss off."

Again, are we as members not already doing this? Many a time I have seen a member comment to a poster, offer suggestions, etc. If that member is offended and their text contains the "piss off" attitude, that should be the RED flag for every member to NOT do business with them as they haven't embraced the Sigforum brother/sisterhood. Members reading the posted advertisement in classifieds would see this educational exchange and move on. No business. If they decide to do business with that person, that's on them.

In this day and age it is and has been scams aplenty. Educate yourself and don't be fooled. If you don't do the research then that's on you.

I hope after coffee cup 2 I don't regret this post

quote:

Originally posted by urbanwarrior238:
Again, are we as members not already doing this? Many a time I have seen a member comment to a poster, offer suggestions, etc.

No, they aren't doing this, with a few exceptions. The log-standing policy is, if you are not transacting business with or have a question for the author of an ad, you should refrain from posting in their ad.

I will miss them. I haven't been buying much lately... but I have made many enjoyable transactions on the Classifieds here. I've made some friends doing so. I've never had a problem with anyone here. But I do have a natural sense of "buyer beware" and I can usually tell when someone is lying or bullshitting me.

A feedback system works very well but alas, this forum software may not support. It's one of the key ways forums add a confidence rating to Classified users. Every forum I participate in that has lots of fraud (mainly new sellers being frauds or the well-known WTB scams) lacks this feature so there's a strong correlation there.

I do like the idea of putting new members into a user bin/category where they can't see classifieds but of course it's more work.

Sturm had to implement a paid subscription to sell in the classifieds. I don't particularly like that but it has cut down on the bad actors but does nothing to stop the WTB scams as there's no filter for "buyers" (sellers in the case of WTB)

One of the best ways of combatting fake sellers is a photo with the date of the listing, the users handle/screen name, and or the forum name.

But, that's not usually the problem here. The issue here is that we have outside people taking advantage of the user base.

Para has a lockdown on our emails, and we manage our contact numbers. Given how many times people ignore the good idea of keeping their contact info private and post emails, and phone numbers in for sale ads, well I don't know how to combat that.

I don't see the level of back-end work that para does. I have no doubt that it is significant.

Don't have an answer.

I have never used the the email listed (as far as I remember) I always pull the email from the member page and respond there.

I know a number of times people use an overflow account to manage emails and they have missed my email. After a couple of misses on items, I started posting in the thread first, then emailing them through their forum contact.

That has solved things for me for the last 8 or 9 years.

I haven't read every comment but personally I would be scared to death to own a website with a classified section for firearms in this day and age...I have never had a scammer issue on here and that is undoubtedly because Para and moderators run a tight ship. I do appreciate that because this has to take a lot of time plus the headaches of keeping all in line.