For what it's worth to roman3667, it's unfair for me to place all of this on him. It's not his fault that I decided that this was the final straw. There was no way for him to forsee any of this. Losing 650 dollars to some slimey reptile is bad enough.

I'll sleep on it and let you guys know tomorrow what I decide to do.

I will miss it. I don't think I've ever sold anything there, but I have bought an awful lot of stuff, from cheap items to fairly expensive guns. Never ripped off, never a problem, never dealt with a seller I didn't know from other postings over time.

I'd be ok if Para would just let it become the wild west. Caveat emptor; let the buyer beware. If you are stupid enough to buy from someone with no history, no track record, bad internet manners and an email that doesn't match other evidence? Sorry. Too bad. It's the same as buying a "Rolex" from a guy in a trench coat on a street corner in Brooklyn. Um, maybe you didn't just score the deal of the century. Maybe you just got hosed.

Diligence. Communications. Track record. Verification. Pass on deals that don't smell right.

If it has to go, it has to go, but I will miss it. If I want to buy something, I almost always check here, or ask here first. Such is the faith I have in the regular members.

ETA: Written before I saw Para's post above, and I second the Monkey.

I have used classifieds to buy and sell. I think I have made some internet Sigforum friends in my sales. I would hate to see us loose classifieds. I think it should boil down to 'buyer beware' and maybe ban WTB adds as previously mentioned.

Is there a way to ban members from the classifieds area until they have say...500 posts??

And again, buyer beware.

My wooden nickel's worth

I like to read the Classifieds and have bought a few things over the years.

Just out of curiosity, when I see something I might be interested in, I look at the sellers posting history. If all I see is buy and selling, and not contributing in the other subforums, I immediately forget about it.

That's neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is that Para has a lot on his shoulders and I respect whatever his decision is.

Early on I remember Para said something, I can't recall the exact words, but it was that he liked to see people contributing to the other subforums, and not just buying and selling. I thought that was succinct and proper for membership here.
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I’d certainly be disappointed to see SigForums classifieds go away, but it’s your house Para. You certainly don’t need input from me on the matter. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with these asshole thieves.

I only sold a couple of items on CLASSIFIEDS. One was an extra P226 magazine that was bought by someone who turned out to be my wife's sister's husband's brother in Texas, which we figured out when we got his check!

And I am extremely leery of that gun auction site these days, where I bought a couple of nice guns in the past, because of all of the scam stories I've heard since they changed owners. Only sell there with someone who has many A+'s.

Maybe some trust measures can be added to keep SigForum CLASSIFIEDS alive. Thanks to Para for keeping it going as long as it did.

I've seen folk on other forums talk about using online escrow services that hold the money until the buyer inspects and accepts or returns the firearm. I've never used them, have no idea how legit they are. But if it was a reasonably priced service, that might be one way to at least add one layer of security.

Maybe another option I'd be comfortable with is if the selling or WTB member had been here many, many years and posted many, many times. It's not fool proof, but if he's a decent sounding poster or if he rages like a madman, it'd be nice to know before I tried to do a deal with him. So, maybe a seniority-only system for buying selling? Say 5+ years before you can do it?

Just spitballing...

I would hate to see it go, but can totally sympathize with Para on the amount of time and effort it takes to run this forum as well as he does. It's literally the only forum I frequent often. I do visit a few others, but seldom.

I would hope a few others here with vast knowledge of the workings could be allowed to help monitor it if it remains. If done properly I'm sure it would be a great help. Folks must do more than due diligence these days, and sometimes even that isn't enough.

I would just ask that you please reconsider the closing of the Classifieds due to the actions of a few slimy criminals. Nowhere else can you find such a large marketplace of SIG specific pistols, parts, holsters and accessories. To take that away from the entirety of the SIGforum membership over the illegal actions of so few seems...

I've been buying/selling on here since 2001 and never had a single problem. It really only takes a minimal amount of effort to verify a buyer/seller from their post history and to be honest you’ll never save everyone from being a victim of a scammer. If people don't do their own due diligence in this day and age of “a scam around every corner” then I don't know what to tell ‘em.

Making the Classifieds available only after your first year of membership and/or XX number of legitimate posts would probably get rid of 99.9% of the scumbags.
Might also consider adding another sticky at the top of the Classifieds with the title “DO NOT PUT YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS IN YOUR AD OR YOU MAY BE SCAMMED!!!” so it’s out there in plain letters for everyone to read without even clicking anything. Either way, I hope you reconsider your initial decision on this.
thanks

This message has been edited. Last edited by: m499,

I'm someone who although a member here for a while has a low post count. I have always been more of a lurker. I have bought a few things from the classifieds and been happy with all my transactions/interactions. I would hate to see the classifieds go but would definitely understand if it does. Para has a tough job here and I don't envy him but I am appreciative of all he does here to keep this place going.

Like many here I will be sorry to see the Classifieds section closed but I certainly understand your reasoning.

I really enjoy coming into the Classifieds section and 'window shopping' I will miss it but I understand why.

Years ago, I used to have a table for every show at the large Houston gun show in the Astrohall.
I always looked forward to the 500-mile round trip. Arriving on Friday to set up and walk around talking to friends and doing trades before the show opened to the public on Saturday.

You made deals and learned your lessons – it was called “experience.”

If a gun had too much oil in the bore (a way to conceal a pitted or rough bore), you ran a patch thru it to clear out the oil. You learned the idiosyncrasies of 1911’s – at what point in WW II did Colt stop cutting the barrel ramp after the gun was parkerized.

Back then, the show was a true gun show, without the large dealers, no tables without guns, or tables loaded with antiques and other folksy stuff.

Gun shows have changed over the years and are not worth the price of admission to the collector.

The Sig Forum Classifieds is the last vestige of the old gun shows. I have made the same type of friends here. Like many, I will send items to friends before payment is received, because we have earned each other’s trust.

On this forum, I have met and shared my memories with a member who came from Nam as a child, another who “ate the same dirt” in the Ia Drang valley, another who shared the same passion for a deceased Master Engraver.

Anyway, the Classifieds is my old-style gun show, where I have friends that I trust and I would hate to see it go. Some people just need to learn to clear the excess oil to see the true bore.

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I don’t normally (or ever, really) post a lot in anything other than the gun (usually weird old or unusual) or photo threads, but I read through almost everything in the lounge forum once or twice a day. Classifieds, I check less often, but still once in a while.

Anyway, I just want to say thanks to Para for running this place, it’s an absolute oasis in the online world. If taking the chainsaw to the Classifieds makes it even .0003% easier on you, then get to cranking.

Even without, this place will still be my first stop in the AM when I go online.

Bill R

I have done a lot of transactions in the classifieds over the years, and never had an issue. Always did business with established members, and always a smooth transaction and items as described.

I hate to see this, as always a few idiots ruin it for everyone.

Redleg2/9 you (and others) are SO MUCH on the money here! I Love this Forum ('and the way Para runs it)!I believe that for Para it is much more than just time and effort (which is a Ton on both). He cares about us and I can see/feel his pain when low-lives 'scommies' enter his domain and hurt good and honest guns/Sig lovers like the absolute majority of the membership here! I also believe he feels somewhat guilty every time a member gets scammed EVEN if that member failed to heed Para's REPEATED advice and warnings.
Para, you have broad shoulders - but please... try not to carry the full weight/burden of all this crap on your shoulders... Man creates or invent something that benefit people. However this same creation can be used by bad actors to hurt people. We can limit this but not eliminate, in my opinion. Sorry for being a philosopher here... It's that you and this Forum has done so much GOOD for so many good people here! I hope you reconsider, Para...

An idea - is it realistic to 'require' every member (on say, a quarterly basis) to read and confirm understanding and compliance (e-sign or similar) with Forum rules and warnings before being able to re-access the classified? This will not completely eliminate the problem but could help maintain awareness and caution (especially in 'Want to Buy' cases.

Just my 2 cents...

For everything there's a season. I have bought a lot of guns via the classifieds and I'll miss it. But complications have a way of fouling everything up whether it's directly related or not. I don't recall over however many years I've been here of more than a fistful of problems with the classifieds; now they are a thing.

When it's time to go, better immediately than wait to see if human kind in its current version is going to change.

clearly a lot of members see value in the classifieds but if it is a relentless PITA and drain of energy for Para it's understandabe to just ax it

I have never used the classifieds. But, it is not the Forum's fault that he was scammed.

That’s a damn shame
I’ve bought a number of items off SF classifieds. In fact the first firearm I ever bought online was off of this page. Not to mention I have sold and traded a few on here I wish I could get back but that’s on me. I have always regarded the members on here as some of the most trustworthy to do such transactions. Its a shame dirtbag motherfuckers have penetrated the ranks of trust and commonsense.

Maybe make the classifieds a pay for service. You want access it will cost you a couple of bucks. I just spent some good coin on a pistol last week. A couple of bucks isn’t much for what this forum provides as many have stated.