quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

just an illustration of why they are helpful in cutting the spread of diseases. In Asian countries it's normal to wear a mask in public if your sick.

'

Right.

So if you're one of the 99% of the people who are not sick AND are NOT coughing and sneezing, what is the bandanna doing exactly? Aside from making you look like an 1800's bank robbery suspect?

Last post on this subject, because I am not in the business of advocating for or against using masks and am 100% against government forcing anyone to do so. I don't feel like being the defender of masks.

The concept is that most people do not know they are sick, so if you are unaware you may be infecting others as you go about your normal day. The theory is the masks cut down or eliminate the amount of cooties you spread by stopping the water droplets you expel which carries the virus with every breath, sneeze, or cough. So instead of accidentally infecting many people you infect zero or a few people.

If you need any further help on understanding why masks are used just google it.

I thought the primary function of the women wearing burkas was to make them smell like goats. (If this post is not breaks a rule I will delete asap)

After Treating Barely Any Patients for a Massive $7.5 Million Each, 16 Emergency COVID Hospitals Are Standing Down

At a cost of $7.5 million a patient, they were 16 very expensive field hospitals.

Yet, according to NPR, those hospitals are now “stand[ing] down.”

You probably remember them from headlines early in the pandemic: makeshift medical centers being assembled at breakneck speed by companies contracted by the Army Corps of Engineers in anticipation of dealing with a massive influx of COVID-19 patients in our nation’s emergency rooms.

At SUNY Stony Brook on New York’s Long Island, $155.5 million was spent on a temporary hospital which, according to New York Newsday, saw “five massive field hospital tents” put up. The maximum beds under contract was 1,038.

To the west on Long Island, another $118.5 million was spent putting up another field hospital at SUNY Old Westbury. Neither have yet to see a single patient. Newsday reported the decision was made not to staff or fully equip the sites in mid-April when the predicted need for hospital beds never materialized.

In Denver, a field hospital at the Colorado Convention Center was supposed to have up to 2,000 beds and open in late April. On April 20, The Denver Post reported the facility wouldn’t be ready until May 15 and would have “about 600 beds.” On Thursday, KUSA-TV reported it would open June 4 and hold 200 beds.

Cost: $34.6 million. Patients seen so far: 0.

These were just some of the quick-hospital projects that were arranged for the cost of over $660 million to taxpayers, according to NPR, which analyzed federal spending records. They looked at over 30 projects that received money; 17 of these projects were listed in their report on the program.

One of them, the facility at New York City’s Javits Center, was an outlier. Costing $11.4 million, it cumulatively treated 1,095 patients. This, by the way, was nowhere near its capacity of 1,900 beds.

The other 16 field hospitals, which cost a total of $615 million, treated just 82 patients during the time they were open — the ones that opened at all, that is.

There were a few reasons these field hospitals were so expensive. As per the Army Corps of Engineers’ specifications, they needed to be bid on and built at lightning speed. This meant the bids were restricted and limited to contractors the government believed could deliver on time.

“I tell our guys, you have three weeks,” Lt. Gen. Todd Semonite, commander of the Army Corps of Engineers, said back in March during a Pentagon media briefing.

“You get as much as you can [get] done in three weeks. And then the mission is complete. We have a narrow window of opportunity. If we don’t leverage that window of opportunity, we’re gonna miss it.”

Officials bragged that the contract for the SUNY Stony Brook facility was closed in “little more than three days.” The process usually takes between six and nine months.

“This time savings was critical in order for construction to begin as quickly as possible, supporting the unusual and compelling nature of the urgency of this procurement and the national emergency,” the Army Corps said in a document.

The problem was that the need for these projects were based on models which have been frightfully wrong on a multitude of occasions.

In the case of the University of Washington’s Institute of Health Metrics and Evaluation model, the state of New York would need over 50,000 beds on April 1; the actual number was 12,226. While the media was telling us hospitals across America were going to be overrun, this never really happened.

This meant that the majority of the Army Corps hospitals never saw a single patient. Some didn’t even open and many have been told to stand down as the first wave of the crisis abates. Some of them have been closed. Projects were scaled back — like the Colorado Convention Center field hospital, which will have one-tenth of the beds that it was originally supposed to have.

This was seen as a victory for social distancing and state stay-at-home policies; governors were thrilled at this state of affairs.

“All those field hospitals and available beds sit empty today,” Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said last month. “And that’s a very, very good thing.”

“These 1,000-bed alternate care sites are not necessary; they’re not filled. Thank God,” said Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat.

We should be thrilled that we don’t have field hospitals teeming with COVID-19 patients, but there was little criticism from officialdom on a very expensive backstop based on models that didn’t compute.

“It’s so painful because what it’s showing is that the plans we have in place, they don’t work,” Robyn Gershon, professor at New York University’s School of Global Public Health, told NPR. “We have to go back to the drawing board and redo it.”

As well we should. At $7.5 million a patient, these 16 facilities were a failure of planning.

Meanwhile, she believes lives were lost because officials continued telling people not to seek medical attention in order to save resources.

“The mantra was, ‘Don’t come to the hospital, don’t go to the doctor, stay home, stay home till your lips turn blue,'” she said. “Well, we now know that was a crazy set of advice.”

According to Gershon, her cousin stayed at home with COVID-19 until it progressed to its late stages; by the time he died, he was on a ventilator.

As for the fact that the two Long Island field hospitals were completed but never treated any patients: “That’s outrageous,” she said. “That’s completely crazy. I hope they didn’t take them down.”

And, indeed, there may be a second wave that require the use of these field hospitals — but then, models which accurately predicted how the first wave meant could have also meant that we may have saved money by bidding on them in a more deliberate manner and building them at a more reasonable pace.

Even if you take the Javits Center into the equation, this didn’t work out as it was planned. NPR said the intake process at the field hospital there was considered so convoluted that, even though the hospital treated 1,095 patients, it was never near capacity while hospitals throughout the city were overflowing.

“There are a lot of losers in it and not a lot of winners,” said Dario Gonzalez, the New York City Fire Department emergency doctor who helped to lead the response at the Javits Center field hospital.

“It was very disappointing,” he added. “Everybody was here, ready to work, ready to get patients in.”

Even if you take the Javits Center into account in the list of major Army Corps medical centers NPR provided, the cost still comes out to well over $500,000 per patient.

And yes, if need be, at least some of the field hospitals can be reopened quickly.

“We really wanted to make sure that we were maintaining some of the physical infrastructure that has been built there. So that should we need it, it doesn’t take us a long time to potentially turn that back on,” said Allison Arwady, Chicago’s public health commissioner.

Whether or not they ever need to be reopened is a totally different question. Based on what we’ve seen thus far, the answer is likely no.

Given that, this was a waste of resources,

https://www.westernjournal.com...lypm&utm_content=ttp

Well you don't say!

Totally NOT shocked!

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
So if you're one of the 99% of the people who are not sick AND are NOT coughing and sneezing, what is the bandanna doing exactly?

Theoretically it will retard the spread of Wu Flu germs by the 20% (guesstimated) of those infected who are asymptomatic, and by those who've become infected but are not yet symptomatic.

Yeah, the masks are something of a PITA. *shrug* In the greater scheme it's a small thing.

Put into perspective: Will I give up my RKBA to save just one life? Not a chance in hell. Will I wear a mask to save just one life? Damn betcha. The former is giving up a right. The latter is enduring relatively little inconvenience.

I regard as a much bigger concern the fact the curve has been flattened and we have governors refusing to let people off their leashes, people all too willing to comply with the excessive restrictions, and people who are frightened of going back to work.

Time to start reminding people this is "The land of the free and the home of the brave," not "The land of the slave and the home of the cowardly."

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

just an illustration of why they are helpful in cutting the spread of diseases. In Asian countries it's normal to wear a mask in public if your sick.

'

Right.

So if you're one of the 99% of the people who are not sick AND are NOT coughing and sneezing, what is the bandanna doing exactly? Aside from making you look like an 1800's bank robbery suspect?

You can be asymptomatic for days and be shedding virus just by breathing.

I'm not for forced government mask wearing, but that's why you should wear one.

The new narrative will be "once we have a vaccine, you can stop wearing the masks".

I still think people should voluntarily wear burkas.

And people should be brave enough wear an easily identifiable emblem if you HAVE the 'Rona, HAD the 'Rona, or are 'Rona Free.

Or just show your papers, please.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Muslim women covering their faces

This is an excellent point to discuss. There are requirements for women to have full face coverings in a lot of muslim countries. How many of those are experiencing less Wu Flu activity because they wear that particular garb? I'm gonna go with None for $200 please Alex. The masks are doing nothing other than providing a sense of security for the scared little sheep.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
The concept is that most people do not know they are sick

That's because they are not. Having zero symptoms means their immune system is doing it's job.



Here is the simplest breakdown I can give everyone.

Those that are wearing masks are introducing their hands (and potential contagions) to areas of their face that are susceptible to receipt of those contagions, whereas I am not because I am smart enough not to rub my hands all over other peoples' filth and then putting my fingers in my mouth or eyes.

Sneezes and coughs this time of year are quite normal and generally allergy related. I am not worried one bit about that because, again, I don't go around finger banging my face after touching stuff that ain't mine. What is having a greater impact on EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY is the amount of debt that our government is racking up, along with the amount of money all of us are losing because we're out of work or worse, out of business.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

just an illustration of why they are helpful in cutting the spread of diseases. In Asian countries it's normal to wear a mask in public if your sick.

'

Right.

So if you're one of the 99% of the people who are not sick AND are NOT coughing and sneezing, what is the bandanna doing exactly? Aside from making you look like an 1800's bank robbery suspect?

The problem seems to be that with this disease it appears that 50% or more can be infected and shedding virus without having symptoms. So one could be “infectious” without being “sick”. One presumes that if one is shedding virus, simply exhaling would be enough to “share”. If that’s true, then a mask might limit the distance that the virus particles are spread.

Did you notice all the qualifiers above? It seems like that is an apt metaphor for our “knowledge” about the virus. All kinds of information, much of it contradictory and lots without context, is out there. What of it is true? It certainly can’t all be.

Then, there is completely opposite approach mentioned by at least some doctors (paraphrased, not a direct quote, just quoted to make it clear that I am not stating this as fact): “All this cowering and disinfection is not helping our immune systems. If and when we ever come out of all this, there will be a much bigger problem, due to the virus still being around and most folks immune systems being asleep or on holiday. We’d be better off to get on with it and build up herd immunity.”

Who is right? Who knows?

My mother sent me this she is in her 70s

Thinking we're having it bad? This will put things in
perspective. Will give you something to think about.

It’s a mess out there now. Hard to discern between what’s a real threat and what is just simple panic and hysteria. For a small amount of perspective at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900.

On your 14th birthday, World War I starts, and ends on your 18th birthday. 22 million people perish in that war. Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until your 20th birthday. 50 million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million.

On your 29th birthday, the Great Depression begins. Unemployment hits 25%, the World GDP drops 27%. That runs until you are 33. The country nearly collapses along with the world economy.

When you turn 39, World War II starts. You aren’t even over the hill yet. And don’t try to catch your breath. On your 41st birthday, the United States is fully pulled into WWII. Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war.

Smallpox was epidemic until you were in your 40’s, as it killed 300 million people during your lifetime.

At 50, the Korean War starts. 5 million perish. From your birth, until you are 55 you dealt with the fear of Polio epidemics each summer. You experience friends and family contracting polio and being paralyzed and/or die.

At 55 the Vietnam War begins and doesn’t end for 20 years. 4 million people perish in that conflict. During the Cold War, you lived each day with the fear of nuclear annihilation. On your 62nd birthday you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, almost ended. When you turn 75, the Vietnam War finally ends.

Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How did they endure all of that? When you were a kid in 1985 and didn’t think your 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was. And how mean that kid in your class was. Yet they survived through everything listed above. Perspective is an amazing art. Refined and enlightening as time goes on. Let’s try and keep things in perspective. Your parents and/or grandparents were called to endure all of the above – you are called to stay home and sit on your couch.

Maybe we don't have it that bad?

This too shall pass.

Perspective is meaningful.

( Lived through more than half of it,... maybe that's why I am not panicking.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Why would you be wronged or insulted for wearing a mask if you were sick?

... ...

If you're sick, I hope you either completely isolate until you're no longer sick, or just wear a mask.

When you are sick, can we make you wear a special symbol with your mask? So we can see you are a sick person?

I mean, it's for my safety.

No, it's totally better if you just go around infecting a bunch of other people, because nothing says "don't intrude on my freedom" like intruding on other people's freedom. You don't want other people to harm you, so you risk harming others instead? Is that right?

You know that issue would be entirely mitigated if everyone just wore a mask for a bit, right?

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
or maybe you don't care about anyone but yourself.

That's rich coming from someone who would refuse to wear a mask when sick, thereby risking the health of others for their own feelings.

And the officer with whom I agreed and spoke too much common sense was fired.

quote:

For a small amount of perspective at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900.

My grandmother was born in 1900. Your post reminds me of her. Thanks for the perspective.

quote:

because nothing says "don't intrude on my freedom" like intruding on other people's freedom.

If you stay locked up in your basement, you have nothing to worry about. I can't find the part in the Constitution about needing to wear masks so that a virus that you may or may not have may not be contracted by somebody who may or may not get it.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

If you stay locked up in your basement, you have nothing to worry about. I can't find the part in the Constitution about needing to wear masks so that a virus that you may or may not have may not be contracted by somebody who may or may not get it.

Sometimes you do the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do and it's a good idea, not because someone else thinks you must.

Sometimes it's not a good idea to resist doing the right thing simply because someone else thinks you must.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
That's rich coming from someone who would refuse to wear a mask when sick, therefore risking the health of others for their own feelings.

What kind of nanny state crap is this that? The same argument is made by EVERY FUCKING GUN GRABBING WHORE. "my childs safety is more important than yours".....sounds familiar doesn't it? If you think I am killing you or anyone else by not wearing a mask, I have a bridge to sell you.

Side_shot brings up a good point with his post. The difference with everyone born before the Vietnam war (and some others, like myself) is that they know they are mortal and therefore will at some point or another die. It's how you lived that will define you.


It's astounding to me that people would rather live in a society that has no semblance of freedom, food shortages, rampant unemployment, stagnant economy, and perpetual misery instead of MAYBE catching the sniffles and living like we have in decades past.

Here's one that will piss you off...

While the whole thing is a cluster, I really like the part about submitting a request to FEMA to be reimbursed for the expense

LEXINGTON, Ky. (LEX 18) — The field hospital at Nutter Field House, which was going to be used to treat additional COVID-19 patients if needed, will close.

An official at the University of Kentucky tells LEX 18 there should be enough hospital beds reserved if there's an increase in COVID-19 patients.

On Thursday, May 7, LEX 18 learned the cost of the "just-in-case" hospital was $6,722,800, according to the university, after filing an open records request. The field hospital was never used.

UK officials say UK Healthcare covered the bill with no tuition or tax dollars used.

Under the contract, the cost could have gone up by another $1.6 million if the field hospital remained in place past the 30-day window. LEX 18 has been told the university does not have to pay that extra amount after notifying the Emergency Disaster Services the field hospital will close within that timeframe.

The university is currently asking reimbursement from FEMA, which has received the request but made no decision.

We're told the field hospital must be torn down by May 20th. Dismantling of the field hospital could start this week.

https://www.lex18.com/news/lex...-at-uk-official-says

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
or maybe you don't care about anyone but yourself.

That's rich coming from someone who would refuse to wear a mask when sick, thereby risking the health of others for their own feelings.

Let me ask you. Have you ever in your entire life walked around with a face covering prior to this current chinese virus?