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Sprint race was fun. Hope the real race isn't a snoozer.
 
Posts: 3920 | Location: Peoples Republic of Berkeley | Registered: June 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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I know the back half are easier to pass than the front half but that was an impressive performance.
The straightaway speed with a fresh Merc didn't hurt either.


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Posts: 7376 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This thread is like a wake today?




Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.
 
Posts: 7334 | Location: Flown-over country | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Still the same two teams at the front...well at least the 'chase' was interesting. Not sure how much of that engine of Hamilton's will be left intact for the last races, but it was entertaining to see M-B turn their cars' wicks up to 11. Desperate measures for desperate times; at least it worked for this race.

Not sure how that first defense by Verstappen against Hamilton didn't warrant some sort of penalty; I kind of remember Hamilton earlier in the season getting hit with one for a similar kind of move against the Red Bull driver.


-MG
 
Posts: 1004 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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2 great races, and an impressive drive by Hamilton.

Interesting that even the stewards didn't have the forward camera view of the Max/Lewis runoff incident.
No contact, just hard racing. To an extent I agree.

It's officially down to just Max & Lewis for the WDC. I believe prior to this race, VB was technically still mathematically in the running.
Now, even if he won the next 3 races & got the FL point, and LH/MV score no points, he'd still finished 3rd overall with <300 points.




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 10067 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
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quote:
Originally posted by monoblok:
Still the same two teams at the front...well at least the 'chase' was interesting. Not sure how much of that engine of Hamilton's will be left intact for the last races, but it was entertaining to see M-B turn their cars' wicks up to 11. Desperate measures for desperate times; at least it worked for this race.

Not sure how that first defense by Verstappen against Hamilton didn't warrant some sort of penalty; I kind of remember Hamilton earlier in the season getting hit with one for a similar kind of move against the Red Bull driver.


It probably avoided a penalty only because it wasn't unequivocally clear that it was intentional, although it was circumstantially quite clear.

And love him or hate him, Hamilton's performances in the Sprint and the main race were excellent.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50625 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Legalize the Constitution
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
And love him or hate him, Hamilton's performances in the Sprint and the main race were excellent.

Undeniably


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Posts: 11035 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Questions about Mercs astounding pace, this from a discussion at the Autosport F1 forum --

On the Mercedes pace in Brazil Christian Horner said the following:

"Obviously it is something, it is something that is enabling the car to do that kind of speed, you know that umm, something must happen. Physics wouldn't allow the kind of horsepower delta that you would need to achieve that." "Hamilton was 27 km/h faster than Lando when he passed him, which is another formula"

After Lewis overtook Max, he increased the gap by 9s over the next 12 laps. That's an average of over 7 tenths per lap. Mark Hughes wrote a piece which was quoted in the build up thread where Merc had increased the gap not just between them and RB but also to the other teams by double the seasonal average. Some of the overtakes yesterday made it look like other cars were standing still, including on cars which had DRS themselves!

The point is, Mercedes has done something big to the car. This isn't just a small tweak. It is something on the level of DAS or Ferrari's fuel meter. Some grey rule that they are exploiting. And something that could very well be banned if its found out on. Now the problem here is, they have introduced this at the very end of the season in a tight points race.



https://forums.autosport.com/t...ship-on-a-grey-rule/




Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.
 
Posts: 7334 | Location: Flown-over country | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To an extent, LH had a brand new ICE, he was noticeably quicker than VB, too & opened a gap there as well.

VB was also reeling MV in at the end, just not enough laps to make the pass. Had MV gotten a time penalty for the T4 off-roading, it would've relegated him to 3rd. IIRD, VB was only a bit over 3 seconds off his tail at the flag.




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Posts: 10067 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To me, Louie's engine was too fast!! I know it was brand new, and that is a more powerful engine than a worn one, but not usually that much faster. Louie could pass anyone and everyone where ever he wanted to with no sweat. I smell a rat!
 
Posts: 5838 | Location: Az | Registered: May 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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quote:
Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
To me, Louie's engine was too fast!! I know it was brand new, and that is a more powerful engine than a worn one, but not usually that much faster. Louie could pass anyone and everyone where ever he wanted to with no sweat. I smell a rat!


If there is a real rat or a violation, they will find it. If it is something that is on the edge of a line, they may ban it, but it could be something legit that they figured out.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50625 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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That was a great performance by Lewis on both days. There's a reason he has over 100 wins and 7 World Championships.
The top speed issue is curious and there are a variety of potential reasons for that.
He has a new engine so that's certainly part of it. They allegedly developed some way to change the pitch at top speed, removing the rake (rear higher than the front) without electronics but simply mechanical means. Is that really why? We don't know yet.
Another possibility is the engines are now turned up higher than in the past (kind of like the old "party mode" used in qualifying. They didn't run nearly all the rev's allowed, boost pressure or timing due to fuel usage and flow limits and reliability. Maybe they have improved the mileage enough that they can turn up the power level and only need to worry about lifespan of the engines. The only real competitor is Red Bull so maybe they are throwing caution to the wind at this point in the season. Given the recent replacements many have needed, that is likely to be a part of the increase.
They could have also found something to increase the hybrid output.
The odd part to me is that other teams with Mercedes engines have had similar reliability issues but have not seemed to get the same power increases from new engines or power output adjustments.
I doubt a company like Mercedes would risk the damage to their reputation that outright cheating would mean. Hopefully we'll get the answer at some point.


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Posts: 7376 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Zhou to partner Bottas at Alfa for '22




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Posts: 10067 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
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a disappointing outcome
 
Posts: 51523 | Location: Tucson Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Verstappen: Forward Facing camera for LH/MV Incident

Does not look like MV opened up the wheel in the turn, looks like understeer & he missed the apex by a bit.
Not sure if he could've turned in more to make the turn, or if he intentionally ran/held it wide to keep LH behind.




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Posts: 10067 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
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That’s still not going to make the Lewis nuthuggers on SkyF1 feel any better. I swear they’re gripping so hard that Lewis is going to have testicular cancer when he turns 45.

And speaking of crying:

Mercedes: "Diplomacy has ended" after Brazil F1 "punches in the face"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/...macy-brazil/6782935/

Verstappen: Worn tyres triggered Turn 4 washout with Hamilton

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/...th-hamilton/6784425/

Red Bull won’t protest ‘unraceable’ Mercedes yet - Horner

https://racer.com/2021/11/14/r...mercedes-yet-horner/

We are seriously going to hear more crying by both sides until the end of the year.

At least for some good news, Giovinazzi is going to Formula E which is very much more his speed. He’s also crying and bitching that he only got bumped from his seat because of money. It certainly couldn’t be he’s nothing special, can barely handle an over the hill former would champion that treats the sport like a hobby, and is either constantly crashing, wrecking others, or like my favorite in Istanbul, ignored team orders to let the faster Kimi by which cost his team any points for the weekend.

Fuck off and don’t let the door knob stick in your ass on the way out…
 
Posts: 2654 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
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quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
Verstappen: Forward Facing camera for LH/MV Incident

Does not look like MV opened up the wheel in the turn, looks like understeer & he missed the apex by a bit.
Not sure if he could've turned in more to make the turn, or if he intentionally ran/held it wide to keep LH behind.


That is probably why there was no penalty. There was no way to say, unequivocally, he did it on purpose. And maybe he didn't. But he still got passed.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50625 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
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He also didn’t wreck anyone unlike the Pit maneuver the Hamster made at Silverstone.
 
Posts: 2654 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
Verstappen: Forward Facing camera for LH/MV Incident

Does not look like MV opened up the wheel in the turn, looks like understeer & he missed the apex by a bit.
Not sure if he could've turned in more to make the turn, or if he intentionally ran/held it wide to keep LH behind.


That is probably why there was no penalty. There was no way to say, unequivocally, he did it on purpose. And maybe he didn't. But he still got passed.


Any decent driver knows that you don’t need the wheel necessarily to change the cars position on track in a turn, for either the Apex or the track-out point.


The throttle and brakes are equally useful tools for placing your car, especially in racing.

All talk about steering angle in this incident ignores so many other factors (like slip angle on the various surfaces) it’s hard to believe people actually even understand how a car works beyond getting groceries.

In all fairness Max probably should have tried to stay inside track limits, but the FIA never enforces track limits (and hasn’t for years), so what’s a driver to do?

Also, if there had been grass or gravel there, that move never would’ve happened IMO.

Go Max!





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
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Posts: 23302 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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quote:
Also, if there had been grass or gravel there, that move never would’ve happened IMO


I really don't like the paved runoff areas and then the need to define and police how much is too much.
If there is a need for then due to safety then they should paint the first ten to twenty feet with a sealer to give them less grip so nature takes care of this problem.


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Posts: 7376 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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