With the intent of being SBR’ed and a dedicated suppressor host with a tri lug? What route did you guys go?

As a qualifier: I have a Scorpion that is SBR’ed and I can throw a tri lug on it, but I don’t love the direct blowback action on it. It’s not necessarily a recoil thing, it just feels jumpy for such a little gun, and if there’s something a lot smoother shooting, I feel like it might work out better for me. I do like how it folds up into a tiny package, though.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P220 Smudge,

I sbr'd a cmmg banshee and sig mpx.
Both shoot softer than my PSA blowback AR9.

The Banshee is trilug and mpx is direct thread because the handguard is longer than the barrel.


Right now we both prefer the Banshee since it has the stock.
The MPX still has a brace and it's too short. Looking into selling the brace and buying a longer stock.

I keep thinking of getting a Scorpion.

CMMG Banshee, you want a DI or some kind of delayed action. If I had to do it again I'd do that. Instead I put together an Aero EPC 9, 8" SBR and I like it a lot but it is blowback. I have a boat load of glock mags and fortunately mine is accurate and runs well. Should be fun enough with the Alaskan 360 I have in jail.

For the mount I'm using Rugged's goofy short brake(they make one with a .360 aperture) with their double taper lock, since the A360 comes with their universal mount for thier muzzle devices. I would have went three-lug if I bought a dedicated pistol can, but it's another good alternative to direct thread-on.

Yeah, I didn’t want to come right out and say I’m looking at a Banshee, but I am. I also have a whole bunch of Glock mags, including a dozen or so 33rd sticks, so I would be off and running that way. The GHM9 or APC9 with a Pro lower would be on the list, but I don’t want to sink that much into one of these.

The Kriss had my interest until I held one at a shop - safety was in a horrible spot for my hands. Not interested in AK’s, so I haven’t really considered the PSA AK-V, but I could be talked into looking a little harder at it. That it takes the same excellent magazine that I have a number of doesn’t hurt it’s case. I don’t really want a blowback AR9 because it isn’t an improvement. I guess I want to know if there’s anything I’m overlooking?

You guys have any issues with the Banshee? I’ve seen that some of them can be finicky about springs and buffers and the rear or the ejection port can get chewed up. I’m not sure I really care about that.

Find a nice clean Zenith Z5RS and you will be very happy.

I've only heard good things about the banshee. AR pattern PCCs are figured out.

Else Stribog?

https://www.rainierarms.com/gr...3g-9mm-sub-pistol-8/

My first 9mm AR was blowback..... I didn't like the recoil ("jumpiness" is a good descriptor). I could never get it to be 100% reliable.

I stumbled across a used Banshee ( delayed radial blowback) and bought it hesitantly. I really, really like this little gun. Much improved recoil and reliability. My Banchee uses the older Colt style mags. I prefer them over the Glock mags but I think the Glock mags do have more capacity. Colt mags are definitely heavier and harder to find.

I had the opportunity to shoot the Sig MPX and was also quite pleased.

YMMV....Best wishes! mike

It’s never been easier to get into an MP5 than current prices for a MKE import.

I have a home build that uses the CMMG radially delayed bolt and barrel that they put in the Banshee (they called it the "Guard" when I bought mine). I like it MUCH better than my blow back guns. The only issue I've had is that it seems to eat ejector springs about every thousand rounds. It'll tell you when it wants a new one...they just start dribbling out and then won't eject at all. It's an easy and inexpensive fix...if I was using it for serious stuff, or even competition, I'd just keep track of round count and change it on a cycle.

One of the guys at work has an MPX, and that thing is a joy to shoot. I think it's even smoother than my CMMG, but my rifle feels lighter and more nimble, even though the MPX is an SBR. I'm honestly not sure which I'd pick if money was no object and I could have either one.

Look at the Stribog as well
Newer versions that take Glock mags are available
I converted mine with an aftermarket lower to take Scorpion mags
I dontt have any suppressed guns , but a lot of people are running them suppressed
The A3 version is delayed roller, much smoother than tbe scorpion I owned previously

P220Smudge I have an addiction for these things and a bit more info would help on what's important. Like what's most important to you and what you want to do with it (example compete?)
I literally own an example of any of the major sellers.
If it helps here's how I would rank them overall using things that matter to me (that may not be what matters to you). My favorite by far is the B&T APC- best overall package. You can have glock lowers, sig lowers, apc mag lowers, multiple stock options all B&T quality, decent recoil via the buffer. Downside cost. The shorter K version is to be avoided suppressed as it generates too much gas to the face and there really isn't any way to mitigate it.
My second favorite is the HK SP5 (a clone is the same). Incredibly soft shooting, tons of choices on stocks, fore ends, triggers etc to make it what you want. Reliable beyond belief. Downsides again cost, especially mags. Reloads suck so it would never do for competitions. And you just feel great shooting it given the history (there is no limit to the smile you get slapping the charging handle no matter how many times you do it). Again the shorter version is way less pleasant to shoot suppressed and I'd avoid it.
I would give third place to the CMMG's. Decent recoil. run well, couple of lower mag options. get the benefits of the AR platform for triggers, stocks, for ends and what not. I've had a few issues on mine so not in the same league of the above for reliability, but acceptable. Glock mags make mag cost very acceptable.
But having said all that I don't value cost particularly high on my list of priorities. If I did the best answer is a plain jane AR9's that take glock or colt mags. I have several and they run and run and run. I use these in matches and brutalize them without any real issues. Occasionally break a part but the parts are everywhere and cheap.
There are lots of others that I have experience with. The two I would suggest to avoid are the MPX (if running suppressed) and the Scorpion (way too many issues in certain areas).
But in any case hope that helps.

I have a 5" Banshee SBR that I paired with a Rugged Obsidian 9 silencer.


It is an extremely fun and reliable setup. I haven't killed an ejector spring yet. I did proactively order a 5 pack of their newer style, beefier, ejector springs.

Mine is setup to use Endomags on a standard AR lower. I have plenty of Glock mags, but this lets me use one SBR lower for 9mm, 5.56,or any other R caliber.

Sometime last year, CMMG changed the timing on their 9mm Banshee bolts by changing the angle on the bolt lugs.

Some have speculated that this might help with the ejector spring issues, but it remains to be seen as far as I know.


If I recall correctly, they changed the bolt lugs to a shallower angle which should have delayed unlocking a bit more and slowed the cyclic rate.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
Sometime last year, CMMG changed the timing on their 9mm Banshee bolts by changing the angle on the bolt lugs.

Some have speculated that this might help with the ejector spring issues, but it remains to be seen as far as I know.


If I recall correctly, they changed the bolt lugs to a shallower angle which should have delayed unlocking a bit more and slowed the cyclic rate.

Interesting. Do you know if it's possible to buy just the bolt?

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
Sometime last year, CMMG changed the timing on their 9mm Banshee bolts by changing the angle on the bolt lugs.

Some have speculated that this might help with the ejector spring issues, but it remains to be seen as far as I know.


If I recall correctly, they changed the bolt lugs to a shallower angle which should have delayed unlocking a bit more and slowed the cyclic rate.

Interesting. Do you know if it's possible to buy just the bolt?

It is. I bought one. The newer ones are marked with an engraved "50" which I believe may be a reference to the bolt angle. That's just a guess.

The discussion of scorpion mags made me remember an item. You can get an APC lower (3rd party) to use scorpion mags on the APC9> Seems to work great.
On the CMMG issues you will break parts, but they are inexpensive at least on the ones I currently have. IndianaBoy I did not know about a new bolt I'll check on that, thanks.
It can be done, but it will take a ton of work to get an MPX to like running a short barrel suppressed.
jb

I know you said you want to avoid the B&T due to cost, but I’d suggest you take a second look at one. The thing about a B&T is, they are already kitted out as you need from the factory, no need going down a rabbit hole of constant mods and upgrades. A big mistake is to only look at the cost of the base gun, and not add in the upgrades you’ll need to be happy with it.

You can snag a new APC9 for $1900 on gunbroker, add a $140 stock after a stamp, and you’re done. It already has a tri lug ($100+ value), a pretty good factory trigger, etc, etc.

An MPX or an HK clone are the same price or more. I have the former, which I like, but I have to say, I don’t love. The APC gets far more range time. I don’t have much first hand experience with CMMG, they are cheaper, but not massively so. AR accessories are a big plus, but remember to add in the cost of anything you’re going to add to any price calculation.

I've got SBRs built using platforms from PTR (HK MP5 clone), PSA's AKV, B&T's GHM9, and Battle Tested Equipment (a local Arizona maker of AR9s), all of which I equipped with trilug muzzle devices so I could utilize my Dead Air Wolfman suppressor. I like them all and find switching the suppressor from one platform to the other is quick and easy. If you want to go with this platform, get a clone and save some $$$$ while you equip it with your own preferences. If you get multiple firearms, put a trilug on each.

My HK clone is certainly the softest shooter, but it really shinned only after I upgraded the trigger with one made by Timney. The AR9 is very dependable, but somewhat gassy with my suppressor and the B&T while certainly the most accurate of the bunch, also needed a trigger from Timney for the best performance. It had to be returned to the factory twice after it began to fire while out of battery (damaging the ejector each time), but seems to be okay now. The HK clone and the AR9 both utilize MP5 magazines and the B&T utilizes Glock magazines because they're more dependable and sturdy than the OEM mags.

Which is my preferred set up? I'd say that all factors considered, it's got to be the PTR (H&K clone).

Thanks for the input, guys.

Yeah, overall cost is something I’m thinking about. I traded into my Scorpion, but I’ve dumped a bit of coin into getting it where I want it to be. I was recently looking at the HBI K kit, which has a short mlok handguard and a 5” barrel with an integral tri lug, but started wondering if that money would just be better spent on a different host. You can buy a Scorpion for about six hundred bucks, but that’s just a starting point because the OEM configuration leaves a lot to be desired. The 3+ is better, but I don’t have one of those, and I don’t like the platform enough to want a second one that won’t share magazines.

I want a reliable, soft-shooting 9mm that I can easily suppress with a tri lug. I want a good trigger, I want something that isn’t picky on ammo, I want to be able to easily mount different gadgets and doodads on it because it’s 2024. I want something I can conceivably use in competition, for home/personal defense, or teach my son on, and not spend a ton overall getting it to that place.

I’m not sure I have any interest in an MP5 clone. I had an HK91 for a long time, and I was happy to finally be rid of it. A friend of mine has an SBR'ed MP5 clone I got to shoot once and I was really underwhelmed. The trigger is the big problem, and anything I have to spend $300-400 on a trigger to get it shootable is less attractive to me. Expensive magazines is another issue. My 90’s era throwback giggle gun is a PS90 that I also need to paper here pretty soon, so I don’t have an itch that the MP5 scratches. Absolute heresy, I know, but I have enough rounds though and hours carrying around an HK that I just don’t actually want another one.

The more I think about it, the more a B&T appeals. I shot one suppressed with an Otter Creek Lithium a few months ago and it was such a sweet setup. The Banshee wearing out anything at a rate of every thousand rounds is a major turnoff. I could do that in one night shoot, and I’m not up for changing springs or extractors in the dark.

As much as I love (and it is my favorite) the B&T APC it would be tough to use the words "not spend a ton" on it. I'll admit that I'm not recoil sensitive in general but the differences in recoil if that's your main goal to a really dirt cheap AR9 which will cost a ton less are not very big and the cost difference is huge.