I had my friend ask his friend what that gun was. It wasn't an APC9, it was an SPC9. Yeah, I'm not into $3k PCC money, so that one ain't making the list lol.

I love my SPA3S. Global ordnance sent me the 40 degree roller at no charge. I haven’t tried it yet as it’s been flawless with the US marked one suppressed. Supposed to make the recoil even less than it already is. Pretty sure I’m going to pick up another one.

Thanks for the post! Is the 40 degree the third revision of that? I know the first ones would choke the action after a bit and the US marked ones fixed that. Interesting, and encouraging that they're tweaking the design and trying to support the customers who bought the guns already. If you end up trying out that roller, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

The more I look at it, the more the Stribog A3 is looking like the one. It's a roller-delayed action in a compact package that gets me into cheap mags. It isn't cheap, but it's less than a Banshee.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
It’s never been easier to get into an MP5 than current prices for a MKE import.

I agree, although prices are going up slightly on them from the manufacturer. They are a nice shooting platform to expand upon.

Something else to consider if you’re leaning toward an HK SP5/MP5 clone like the Zenith, if you have any interest in a binary trigger (which is almost as much fun as full auto for thousands less) the SP5 requires machine work where the Zenith and most other clones that I’m aware of, do not … Franklin Armory and perhaps others also make binary Triggers for the Scorpion EVO and several of the BT 9mm’s. I get almost the same smile with a binary trigger as I do with my registered sear, M16 & M11/nine, just food for thought.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I want a binary in whatever little SBR'ed PCC subgun thing I end up with. Suppressed subs spitting out of it at the speed of "try to outrun the bolt" sounds like the kind of grins I need once in a while.

Shot two new contenders today.

The first was this guy:
https://showlowmfg.com/product...n-high-roller-green/



Now, I didn't get to shoot it a bunch, just forty rounds. Five rounds on semi, and unlike Micah, a 35rd magazine on full auto. At 1,500rpm, I managed three ten-ish round bursts, and it was over in about two seconds. Boy, it slings 'em out fast. At that, it was extremely controllable. I found it smooth and not at all jumpy on semi. I'm fairly sure the one I shot had a flat trigger, but either way, his complaint about that wasn't something echoed in my all-too-brief testing. In fact, I notice his example also doesn't have a top rail on the handguard and the ones I saw today all did, so they've been making some changes since he made that video.

The trigger was good. The handguard, while square, was comfortable and utilitarian. Honestly... the only thing I didn't like about it was the single AK style safety. I like working safety levers with my thumb, but I think I could get over that because this thing is incredibly solid, and for that, at a reasonable weight. I have little doubt I could use it as a hammer to drive tent stakes if I needed to, and it would be fine. I didn't think to ask what it weighed (I handled and shot an 8" model), but it was light and nimble in the hands. I asked about a tri lug barrel and the guy who I believe owns the company said "We're not gonna mess with that right now, we're trying to focus on getting orders filled." Fair. There's a Filipino military force that has an order of them, and some police agency somewhere is down to deciding between these and an MPX of some flavor.

I really like this thing. It ticks a lot of boxes, and at a price lower than the competitors. A Stribog A3 with the Lingle lower is still hundreds of dollars more than this. Basically, all it needs is a tax stamp and a stock.

Is it ugly? You bet. But it's ugly in a purely utilitarian kind of way, and I find that it has some charm because of it. Really, really interested in one of these.



I also got to try out a Daniel Defense PCC in probably a 5" or 6". Scorpion magazines again, and I said I thought it was a good choice. He commented that "the work was already done on that and you can find them for under $20, so why not?"



They're not on the market yet, and the guy wouldn't give me a straight answer on price. He said they "should be under two grand." It's the AR spin on this same concept in all the ways the Black Jack is the AK version. The DD PCC will take standard AR buffer tubes, stocks, grips, triggers, and a few other small parts. I asked if it would take a binary and he made a face just like this and said "I mean, I guess you could."


I have no idea why the weird reaction.

Anyway, it was smooth shooting, but I found it very gassy. At that, it had some gas busting type charging handle with the raised rim around the back. I was a little surprised, to be honest. The Black Jack had none of that.

So there it is, two more options either on the market or coming soon, both feeding from Scorpion magazines. The Show Low Blackjack really has my attention. For the price, I don't see a lot on it that needs to change. Add a stamp, a stock, and go for it. Great design.

In addition to my PTR (MP5 Clone) SBR/PCC, I've had a lot of enjoyable shooting time with my PSA AKV, B&T GHM9 Compact, and an AR9 built by Battle Tested Equipment. Of these, the B&T shoots noticeably softer and is most accurate with it's Timney trigger. Unfortunately, I've had to send it back to B&T several times due to firing out of battery issues. I've got a couple hundred rounds through it since the last time it was returned to me and hopefully the problem has been resolved for good. All four of my PCC/SBRs have trilug muzzle devices so I can quickly and easily move my suppressor (Dead Air Wolfman) from one system to another.

The best deal for the money was definitely the AKV, as I scored it when PSA had these on sale for less than $1k, with ten magazines and a nice case. The upgraded ALG trigger was well worth the extra dollars.

Very nice! Now that I allowed myself to consider something in the AK style platform, the AKV actually has my attention. I like how you have yours set up there, that's quite appealing.

I think it was only because of the price tag that it was easy to forget about shooting the factory integral suppressed SPC9 on Saturday. I shot it without ear pro and it was honestly like shooting a CO2 BB gun. It was insanely quiet, and so smooth. I don't have $3,350 plus tax stamp to throw at something like this right now or that's the one I would skip right to. It was very, very sweet.

Ok, this is interesting.

quote:

Nexus Firearms is extremely excited to announce the launch of the NEXUS EVO GEN1 a billet aluminum receiver featuring a Ball Bearing Delayed system for the CZ Scorpion platform! More info about this product is in the description and in the comments:
Since day one of Nexus Firearms our goal of this company has been to help remedy the issues and flaws of this platform that we all love so much. Well the NEXUS EVO GEN1 is the final rendition of that. This receiver is a drop in replacement to any CZ Scorpion 3 or 3+ with full OEM parts compatibility.

We have re-designed the Scorpions receiver from the ground up. The NEXUS EVO GEN1 receiver is machined from a single piece of billet aluminum and is significantly stronger and more robust than the plastic OEM receiver. Our receiver has been revolutionized using a Ball Bearing Delayed system this provides outstanding lockup with the breach face and completely eliminating the chance for bolt bounce. The best part about this new receiver is it does not require a proprietary bolt, you do not even need our Enhanced Bolt (even though we will strongly recommend pairing the two for the most optimal performance) but this receiver will work with any OEM bolt currently out there. The entire Ball Bearing Delayed system is built in to the upper receiver so no need for additional parts.

Our target launch price point for just the receiver will be $350 and is subject to change as we finish the development and are closer to launch. (Expected launch date is two months)

At launch our goal is to also offer the NEXUS EVO GEN1 as a complete firearm as well with all parts manufactured by us or our partners. So essentially exactly what you see here in the photo with all different barrel lengths and hand-guard options to choose from!

More pictures and videos will be released in the next few weeks covering this product. If you have any questions or comments about the product please leave them in the comments below and we would love to hear the feedback!

Sincerely, Nexus Firearms

Since it's the serialized part, it would be a 4473 and another stamp, and I'd have an amnesty registered polymer clamshell I'd effectively be throwing in a parts bin. However, roller-delayed to deal with bolt bounce and OOB's still may give a side benefit of smoother shooting and less port pop suppressed. This could actually lend itself really well to the IA-SC9 integral setup. Would be a damned spendy build, but it would still be cheaper than a B&T SPC9 integral, it wouldn't be much more money spent than buying a Stribog SP9A3 and the Lingle lower, and I'd still be into my expanding pile of Scorpion magazines.

I don't really need two of these damned things, but shooting that integrally suppressed B&T was an eye-opener. I've always wanted an integrally suppressed gun, and I listened to everyone saying "don't go that route, it's better to have suppressors you can mount on anything you want," but sweet Jesus was that little gun quiet, and with standard velocity 115gr ball ammo. The IA-SC9 is stupidly overpriced, and on a polymer gun where a lot of them blow their brains out, it didn't make a lot of sense to me. But billet aluminum, and roller-delayed? I could get behind that. I can only imagine what a giggle it would be with a binary trigger.

Keeping the registered receiver and factory barrel as takeoff parts opens up 3D printing some of the Scorpion builds I've seen.

Hmmmm.

I posted about it in the suppressor forum and I'll spare everyone the rambling just copied and pasted here, but the punchline is that suppressed with subsonic ammo, my Scorpion is very loud at the ear because of the action. That clacking noise is just really sharp, and louder than what's coming out the suppressor. Something that operates a little smoother is what I'm looking for, at least for suppressed shooting. I shot a B&T SPC9-SD several weekends ago, and it was CO2 BB gun quiet with 115gr ball ammo and no ears on. I want that. I get it now.

One of the guys in my group has a GHM9-SD and an APC9. He said he'd be happy to get together for a suppressed 9mm PCC shoot sometime soon. Counting the SPC9 suppressed with an Otter Creek Lithium back in January and the SD model a few weeks ago, that's a pretty good sampling of B&T's offerings fired suppressed, enough to at least have an impression. I think I'm starting to lean heavily towards an integral. I can tinker and tweak on the Scorpion until the cows come home, but there's no getting around that heavy bolt slamming back and forth. You can't cheat physics, and in my case, the physics are loud. Maybe the "muh hydraulic buffer" isn't just snake oil.

While maybe not relevant, really enjoying my M4/9mm build, Spikes Glock AR9 lower, BCA M4 Complete Upper. No magic to making it work, rifle is 100% as is, using BCA supplied 9mm buffer. Shoots lights out, no recoil, little noise, Glock Factory stick mags.

A bit off-topic, but has anyone tried any of Zenith's recent MP5 clones, now that MKE is out of the picture and Zenith is now making them here?

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
A bit off-topic, but has anyone tried any of Zenith's recent MP5 clones, now that MKE is out of the picture and Zenith is now making them here?

Probably worth its own thread, this one is pretty well played-out. The MP5 guys moved on.

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
A bit off-topic, but has anyone tried any of Zenith's recent MP5 clones, now that MKE is out of the picture and Zenith is now making them here?

I've got an American made PTR that I SBR'd and am very pleased with it.

That looks great. How's the ACR stock on weight and balance?

I got to shoot one of PTR's MP5 clones a few months back at their booth, suppressed with their 9mm can. It was very quiet, and very comfortable. I have to admit I really liked it. I don't know what was going on with the trigger, but it was better than I was expecting as well.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
That looks great. How's the ACR stock on weight and balance?

I got to shoot one of PTR's MP5 clones a few months back at their booth, suppressed with their 9mm can. It was very quiet, and very comfortable. I have to admit I really liked it. I don't know what was going on with the trigger, but it was better than I was expecting as well.

The ACR stock works great! It lets me get a perfect cheekweld to go with the Trijicon MRO (Green dot). I swapped out the standard trigger for a Timney (2-2 lb) trigger, that I find far better than the OEM. Very smooth and easy to stage for accurate shots. My suppressor is a Dead Air Wolfman and the only problem I've had with it is if the guy holding the timer is standing too far away. This is so quiet (using good subsonic loads), that the timer needs to be right over my shoulder to register the rounds fired during competition.

Here's the thing: Besides the OEM rail (far better IMHO than buying and using a clamp on device), the basic PTR sells for less than half the price of a new H&K, yet has about the same level of reliability as far as I can tell, BUT the money you save can be put to use doing the customization you'd like to do. Those custom parts (like the stock, optics, trigger, etc...) would only add on to the price of an actual H&K. I'm very pleased with the end product here and (using factory German magazines) think it's vey practical as well as fun to shoot.

I am a fan of PTR so this is just a factual reporting. Like most things I do when I get into something I go all in. I have 4 PTR MP5 clones 2 have serious issues (I have several other PTR's as well no real problems). No issues from my HK SP's. That's not a knock on anything but I don't want your all is fine for half the price to stand without some counter.

My PTR Clone has been a "hoot" to shoot and soft shooting (compared to AR9 and CZ Scorpion).
I broke a hammer on mine after ~3-400 rounds. There was some lettering indented onto the side of the hammer and it created a stress riser and broke right in the middle (forging and casting marks are easy to overlook durability). They warrantied with photos of the failure and sent out another without the markings in the middle (also offered to repair the trigger pack). Other than that, it's been reliable for a few thousand rounds. HK OEM mags have been 100% as well as KCI metal aftermarket magazines, but I did have some feed issues with an elite systems.

If an MP5 clone is the inescapable conclusion and the answer to my question, then it just is and there's worse ways to end up. I ended up shooting and carrying Glocks based on a rental range day and trying everything they had. I did not want to end up with Glock, but I did. I was dragged kicking and screaming, but now I shoot and carry Glocks, and they work well for my needs. Even I can be practical at times.

The MP5 does nothing to excite me, but if the proof is in the shooting with a platform that suppresses well, shoots quiet at the ear, and doesn't bounce around with a bunch of harshly cycling reciprocating mass, then those are my main criteria. On paper, it does that.

I can be into a GHM9 SD for $2,400 through Eurooptic before tax stamps and transfers and all that. Call it probably a little over three grand all-in with the Lingle lower for Scorpion mag compatibility. That's a lot to sink into kind of an odd duck setup. I get that. An MP5 clone would be substantially less. If I set up the Scorpion with a tri lug barrel so I can move the can between them, that's still money for that, plus some odds and ends on the MP5 plus tax stamp. It's pretty iconic and would be a nice gun to have. I'm not there yet, but I'll at least say it's in the running now, whereas I wouldn't really consider one before.

I have a properly NFA registered and 922(r) "upgraded" SBR Scorpion. I have also shot several times FA MPX and HK MP5s plus the Beretta Cx4 Storm. As I understand it, you already have a Scorpion so I will focus on what I have experience shooting.

Of these four, the MP5 was easily the smoothest shooting PCC. Nothing else was close. Now that HK is actually selling semi-auto MP5s we are finally starting to see spare parts, 922r kits, etc. The MPX is pricey compared to the CZ and Beretta and spare parts aren't anywhere near as prevalent as they are for the CZ and HK. In addition, SIG has a deservedly poor reputation in dropping support for platforms (SIG 556 for example) which makes me gun shy (pun intended) in buying the MPX. The Beretta is very accurate and easy to shoot but there really aren't any 922(r) options outside of Sierra Papa and I don't think that gets you to 922(r) compliance. In addition, spare parts are basically non existent and you would have to have the barrel properly cutdown as there are no SBR barrels that I am aware of out there. Finally, I have no idea how you would be able to attach a suppressor to the Berretta, unless you had it threaded, but that runs up against 922(r) as well.

If it were me, I would look at a US made MP5 clone like the ones made by PTR. This would avoid the 922(r) hassle for an SBR and you also avoid the hassle associated with binary triggers or a F/A sear if you ever decide to go that route. If you aren't interested in a binary trigger or possible sear, then an actual HK MP5 will hold its value better but it will cost you $$$$ in finding and installing enough parts to become compliant with 922(r). One thing to keep in mind is that a MP5 that has been properly altered under 922(r) isn't really an HK anymore but a clone/hybrid. Although, if you want to "gamble", you could wait and see if 922(r) is successfully challenged now that Chevron has been abrogated.