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P320 Drop Safety in Question (Formerly DPD Recall thread) Login/Join 
smithnsig
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted August 07, 2017 01:01 PMHide Post
I usually take all this with a grain of salt but thyat video is scary.


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TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6501 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
P6shooter
Member
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posted August 07, 2017 01:01 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by evolution:
I would like to know which flat trigger they used to alleviate the symptom.


It was the trigger from the P320X5 which means it was the Gray Guns trigger.
 
Posts: 820 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: May 10, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wolffy88
Member
Picture of wolffy88
posted August 07, 2017 01:01 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by evolution:
I would like to know which flat trigger they used to alleviate the symptom.

It was out of their X5 model. So I assume an X5 flat trigger. Maybe not though.

In response to the question of the firearms being used that had been tested. ONE of the test subjects was out of the box brand new. The others were previously tested models.


-wolff

"In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm
 
Posts: 2103 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Replacement Tommel
The Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rollah
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posted August 07, 2017 01:02 PMHide Post
In the video he says they had no issues with the X5 and it's straight trigger.

-Tom


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Posts: 10567 | Location: Boyertown, PA USA | Registered: July 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
striker1
Security Sage
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posted August 07, 2017 01:02 PMHide Post


RB

Cancer fighter (Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma) since 2009, now fighting Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma.


 
Posts: 7133 | Location: Michiana | Registered: March 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
smithnsig
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted August 07, 2017 01:04 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I am here to tell you that there is no safety issues with the P320.

There was no incident, ND, or failure of a P320 of any sort that prompted the memo by Lt. Williamson.

DPD does not have any in their inventory, has never tested it, has only a couple officers carrying it so far, and none have had any issues.

The memo was simply addressing some outdated legacy language that inexplicably made it's way into one of the P320 owner's manuals. In doing due diligence just as I would have, this was questioned, SIG responded to clarify, and it was over.

All reports and online discussions to follow trace back to an article published by gunmagwarehouse.com. There was a headline stating "SIG SAUER P320 Fails Drop Test." In the article, the author reports that an anonymous reliable source within DPD stated that a P320 ND'd during training, among other inflammatory implications that proved not to be true.

I reached out, speaking for myself and Grayguns Inc., to this author on Tuesday to offer factual, verifiable information or an interview, but was rebuffed. This erroneous story was then reposted and repeated widely.

I and others knew this entire thing was bullshit from the start, but the author of this hyped up and apparently fabricated non-story from an "anonymous source" was not interested in hearing verifiable information, on the record.

And, for that record, there has never been a verified instance of any P320 firing when dropped out of the nearly 350,000 sold to date, much less a factory-spec pistol.

I have looked for such reports and followed up on everything I find, for three solud years. It hasn't happened.

The recent YouTube video pupirtibg to show a "P320 drop test" failure is an obvious fake.

I have personally bounced these puppies off of everything I can find. No go bang, ever.

This crap needs to be dismissed. The P320 is safe.

-Bruce


Are you talking about the last set of videos is fake?

I find it hard to believe a person would destroy themselves professionally and legally to put out a slanderous video like that.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 6501 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
lordhamster
Member
posted August 07, 2017 01:14 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:


The recent YouTube video pupirtibg to show a "P320 drop test" failure is an obvious fake.

I have personally bounced these puppies off of everything I can find. No go bang, ever.

This crap needs to be dismissed. The P320 is safe.

-Bruce


Bruce, thank you for your continued contributions to this site! I'm curious as to what specifically you men when you say the video is an "obvious" fake? With TTAG and The Omaha video both purporting the same results, there are only one of two scenarios.

1. There is a massive conspiracy against Sig (which is possible given the money at stake with the MHS contract)

2. Maybe there is something too this... With two presumably independent sources claiming the same thing now, I'm inclined to believe this scenario.

Was there something specifically in the video that you saw that would indicate a fake?
 
Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
9mmdude
Glock Junkie
posted August 07, 2017 01:14 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
I am here to tell you that there is no safety issues with the P320.

There was no incident, ND, or failure of a P320 of any sort that prompted the memo by Lt. Williamson.

DPD does not have any in their inventory, has never tested it, has only a couple officers carrying it so far, and none have had any issues.

The memo was simply addressing some outdated legacy language that inexplicably made it's way into one of the P320 owner's manuals. In doing due diligence just as I would have, this was questioned, SIG responded to clarify, and it was over.

All reports and online discussions to follow trace back to an article published by gunmagwarehouse.com. There was a headline stating "SIG SAUER P320 Fails Drop Test." In the article, the author reports that an anonymous reliable source within DPD stated that a P320 ND'd during training, among other inflammatory implications that proved not to be true.

I reached out, speaking for myself and Grayguns Inc., to this author on Tuesday to offer factual, verifiable information or an interview, but was rebuffed. This erroneous story was then reposted and repeated widely.

I and others knew this entire thing was bullshit from the start, but the author of this hyped up and apparently fabricated non-story from an "anonymous source" was not interested in hearing verifiable information, on the record.

And, for that record, there has never been a verified instance of any P320 firing when dropped out of the nearly 350,000 sold to date, much less a factory-spec pistol.

I have looked for such reports and followed up on everything I find, for three solud years. It hasn't happened.

The recent YouTube video pupirtibg to show a "P320 drop test" failure is an obvious fake.

I have personally bounced these puppies off of everything I can find. No go bang, ever.

This crap needs to be dismissed. The P320 is safe.

-Bruce


So what do you say now with the new video?
 
Posts: 338 | Location: USA | Registered: February 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
WARPIG602
With bad intent
posted August 07, 2017 01:16 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by evolution:
I'm waiting for Bruce to weigh in here.

I don't like the sound of this though.


Will Bruces opinion really make those 320's not discharge? You do realize he is mortal and while knowledgable, is not infallible and all knowing.


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Posts: 7959 | Location: One step ahead of you | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fredward
Member
posted August 07, 2017 01:37 PMHide Post
I've reviewed everything available as I am pretty heavily invested in the 320. It all boils down to personal choice. I, personally, believe what Bruce said, and I think the reports are pretty much a bunch of crap. There is a P320 SC currently on my right hip, where it will likely remain. If you disagree, carry something else. And now I move on to much more important matters.
 
Posts: 17395 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Steve 22X
Diversified Hobbyist
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posted August 07, 2017 01:48 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
The first TTAG article is available to read on Page 7 of this thread.


I pretty much stopped reading TTAG several years ago hence did not initially attempt to open the links.

Nevertheless, attempting to find the TTAG article using the first link available on Pg 7 of this thread results in a "Page not found" error on the browser tab and the page displayed is devoid of anything related to the topic.

The other link to TTAG, listed further down the thread (Pg 7) has them simply reporting on the Omaha video.

In other words, no additional news was found there.

Edited to add:
After reading the "comments" section of the TTAG article I note that Andrew Tuohy claims, "It was during the course of attempting to approximate portions of the ANSI test with its increased height that we discovered this angle would cause the weapons to fire."

That seems to answer my #1 question.
It appears they threw the pistols to the ground rather than just let them drop from a measured height.


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Regards, Steve
The anticipation is often greater than the actual reward
 
Posts: 2463 | Location: Wylie, Texas | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
pblanc
Member
posted August 07, 2017 01:55 PMHide Post
The video looks entirely credible to me and I will take it at face value unless and until a reason comes along not to.

It seems to me unrealistic that a major retailer like Omaha Outdoors would risk their credibility and invite possible legal action for damages by putting up a fraudulent video, made using deliberately altered pistols.

Here is the link to the video and article:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c...lowing-drop-testing/

It should be pretty easy and quick for SIG Sauer to replicate this test. If their results are different, I would like to see video results of their testing. In any event, I think SIG Sauer needs to respond to this new video quickly.
 
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evolution
You dig
Picture of evolution
posted August 07, 2017 01:57 PMHide Post
Well I for one value Bruce's opinion greatly. I suspect he is reviewing the new video and will be along when he has something relevant to contribute.


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GeorgiaCarry.org
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Posts: 2602 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: June 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
striker1
Security Sage
Picture of striker1
posted August 07, 2017 02:03 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
quote:
Originally posted by striker1:



So the lighter trigger, as suggested, is also not a fix.


Sure it is. It restores balance between the component masses so one doesn't overrule another in an impact.

I only addressed the spring idea in the previous post.


In theory, a lighter trigger mass could still result in a failure, if the pistol were dropped from more than 4'.


RB

Cancer fighter (Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma) since 2009, now fighting Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma.


 
Posts: 7133 | Location: Michiana | Registered: March 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
lordhamster
Member
posted August 07, 2017 02:03 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fredward:
I've reviewed everything available as I am pretty heavily invested in the 320. It all boils down to personal choice. I, personally, believe what Bruce said, and I think the reports are pretty much a bunch of crap. There is a P320 SC currently on my right hip, where it will likely remain. If you disagree, carry something else. And now I move on to much more important matters.


Personal choice goes without saying. Of course everyone is free to react to the info in any way they choose. The important thing is we need to find out if the test results are valid.

I'm curious about what about the Omaha video makes you say it is "pretty much a bunch of crap?" Do you think it is a fake? Do you think you are incapable of dropping the pistol at that angle accidentally?
 
Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Anubismp
Member
posted August 07, 2017 02:16 PMHide Post
I wasn't present for the testing nor do I have a 320 but I'm having trouble with the video. Maybe its just me but I have a hard time not believing its not a bit of a hit piece with their slow mos and extra graphics. I have no experience with the company and maybe that's how they do all their stuff but it strikes me as odd and serving some ulterior motive. I could be 1000% wrong but if I'm doing drop testing I'm not going to be in an enclosed room popping shots into my ceiling or any of the other stuff I see in the video. Its just a bit too super cool for me. I hope this doesn't mean I'm officially old. Smile
 
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DevlDogs55
Bamf
posted August 07, 2017 02:16 PMHide Post
Ok.. stupid question: Are they testing these with blanks in the video? I may have missed that if they said it when I was watching.

Can't figure out how else they would be dropping a loaded pistol right next to their feet unless they're using blanks. When I first saw the video I thought it was satire.



"I have a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim" - Ænema
 
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lordhamster
Member
posted August 07, 2017 02:18 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DevlDogs55:
Ok.. stupid question: Are they testing these with blanks in the video? I may have missed that if they said it when I was watching.

Can't figure out how else they would be dropping a loaded pistol right next to their feet unless they're using blanks. When I first saw the video I thought it was satire.


Usually when they do tests like this they use a primed cartridge with no projectile or powder charge. What you see going off is the primer flash.
 
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wolffy88
Member
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posted August 07, 2017 02:21 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by DevlDogs55:
Ok.. stupid question: Are they testing these with blanks in the video? I may have missed that if they said it when I was watching.

Can't figure out how else they would be dropping a loaded pistol right next to their feet unless they're using blanks. When I first saw the video I thought it was satire.


Usually when they do tests like this they use a primed cartridge with no projectile or powder charge. What you see going off is the primer flash.

That is how they did this testing. They wrote about it in one of the articles I read, maybe the one on pg.7


-wolff

"In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm
 
Posts: 2103 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pale Horse
Leatherneck
posted August 07, 2017 02:24 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wolffy88:
quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by DevlDogs55:
Ok.. stupid question: Are they testing these with blanks in the video? I may have missed that if they said it when I was watching.

Can't figure out how else they would be dropping a loaded pistol right next to their feet unless they're using blanks. When I first saw the video I thought it was satire.


Usually when they do tests like this they use a primed cartridge with no projectile or powder charge. What you see going off is the primer flash.

That is how they did this testing. They wrote about it in one of the articles I read, maybe the one on pg.7


I don't think it was a dumb question at all. I also had no idea.



“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
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