P320 Drop Safety in Question (Formerly DPD Recall thread)

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I'm sure it has to be a hit piece by Glock Fanbois. <sarcasm>

Even so, Omaha Outdoors sells over 3000 'SIG' items, so somehow I think they may be onto something here.

They certainly have lots to lose if they are fabricating this. Sig could/would sue them into oblivion.

Regardless, I'd like to see some more people repeating this test.

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

RHINOWSO

Go ahead punk, make my day

posted

quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I'm sure it has to be a hit piece by Glock Fanbois. <sarcasm>

Even so, Omaha Outdoors sells over 3000 'SIG' items, so somehow I think they may be onto something here.

They certainly have lots to lose if they are fabricating this. Sig could/would sue them into oblivion.

Regardless, I'd like to see some more people repeating this test.

Oh I'm sure all the Youtubers are scrambling to get primed brass and hard surfaces ready to go....

And I put the percentage chance that they are actually fabricating the test at about 0.1%. They have zero to gain by doing so IMO.

Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008

Ignored post by RHINOWSO posted

rjbaal

Member

posted

Wasn't Mr.Touhy part of the FireClean debacle? I watched the video and it convinces me of very little. Yes, it is possible a P320 can discharge if dropped a certain way, BUT what was presented is hardly a scientifically valid and repeatable test. In today's world it is impossible to discern people's motivation to perform and post videos about such tests. I'l keep shooting my P320 and continue to be skeptical.

___________________________

Posts: 102 | Registered: September 07, 2011

Ignored post by rjbaal posted

greyeyezz

FBHO

posted

quote:
Oh I'm sure all the Youtubers are scrambling to get primed brass and hard surfaces ready to go....

Let's hope it's just primed brass, remember John Q Public isn't terribly bright.

Posts: 1047 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: September 23, 2001

Ignored post by greyeyezz posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by greyeyezz:
quote:
Oh I'm sure all the Youtubers are scrambling to get primed brass and hard surfaces ready to go....

Let's hope it's just primed brass, remember John Q Public isn't terribly bright.

Then there are people who just don't get the issue like this stooge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvARR0Tk7iI

Or this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppye9QUBmQ

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by rjbaal:
Wasn't Mr.Touhy part of the FireClean debacle? I watched the video and it convinces me of very little. Yes, it is possible a P320 can discharge if dropped a certain way, BUT what was presented is hardly a scientifically valid and repeatable test. In today's world it is impossible to discern people's motivation to perform and post videos about such tests. I'l keep shooting my P320 and continue to be skeptical.

Um... regardless of the veracity of the video, what was presented is EXTREMELY repeatable... that is the whole point of the video. It should be easy to repeat this experiment, and to even improve upon it.

I agree we need to be skeptical, but at the same time dismissing it out of hand is just as foolhardy as accepting it as gospel. IMO

Point is, until other people repeat this EASILY repeatable test and get the same or similar results, we just don't know.

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

EmpireState

JOIN, or DIE

posted

This is very concerning....also, it is an extemely weird series of events that lead us to this point. Either way, I don't see how Omaha Outdoors would be anything but credible at this point unless some other information comes out. They pretty much proved a gun to not be safe and if they are not standing on 100% truth and honesty, they are opening themselves up big time. At this point I would not be comfortable carrying a 320 after seeing this.

Posts: 3576 | Registered: February 25, 2010

Ignored post by EmpireState posted

bubbatime

That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Steve 22X:
It appears they threw the pistols to the ground rather than just let them drop from a measured height.

Cops and suspects never get in struggles, right? To a point where a pistol might be thrown to the ground rather hard rather than dropped gently with only gravity to act upon it, am I right?

______________________________________________________
Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow

Posts: 6708 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004

Ignored post by bubbatime posted

bubbatime

That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime

posted

quote:
Originally posted by rjbaal:
BUT what was presented is hardly a scientifically valid and repeatable test

AND there it is. How scientific and repeatable is it when John Q Public drops his gun at the firing range? Or Officer Friendly's gun falls out of his holster in a foot chase? Is that scientific and repeatable drop testing? Give me a fucking break.

If a gun manufacturer ONLY uses "scientific and repeatable" drop test, than I would say they are doing it wrong.

______________________________________________________
Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow

Posts: 6708 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004

Ignored post by bubbatime posted

rjbaal

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by rjbaal:
Wasn't Mr.Touhy part of the FireClean debacle? I watched the video and it convinces me of very little. Yes, it is possible a P320 can discharge if dropped a certain way, BUT what was presented is hardly a scientifically valid and repeatable test. In today's world it is impossible to discern people's motivation to perform and post videos about such tests. I'l keep shooting my P320 and continue to be skeptical.

Um... regardless of the veracity of the video, what was presented is EXTREMELY repeatable... that is the whole point of the video. It should be easy to repeat this experiment, and to even improve upon it.

I agree we need to be skeptical, but at the same time dismissing it out of hand is just as foolhardy as accepting it as gospel. IMO

Point is, until other people repeat this EASILY repeatable test and get the same or similar results, we just don't know.

A Sample size of two or three is not statistically valid. Moreover, we don't really know what condition the pistols where in prior to the testing. If were to take someone's word based on internet postings about the P320 I would tend to believe Bruce Gray over anyone else.

However, you are correct in that true, controlled, and independent testing may be necessary to truly know if this is a legitimate issue.

___________________________

Posts: 102 | Registered: September 07, 2011

Ignored post by rjbaal posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by rjbaal:
quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by rjbaal:
Wasn't Mr.Touhy part of the FireClean debacle? I watched the video and it convinces me of very little. Yes, it is possible a P320 can discharge if dropped a certain way, BUT what was presented is hardly a scientifically valid and repeatable test. In today's world it is impossible to discern people's motivation to perform and post videos about such tests. I'l keep shooting my P320 and continue to be skeptical.

Um... regardless of the veracity of the video, what was presented is EXTREMELY repeatable... that is the whole point of the video. It should be easy to repeat this experiment, and to even improve upon it.

I agree we need to be skeptical, but at the same time dismissing it out of hand is just as foolhardy as accepting it as gospel. IMO

Point is, until other people repeat this EASILY repeatable test and get the same or similar results, we just don't know.

A Sample size of two or three is not statistically valid. Moreover, we don't really know what condition the pistols where in prior to the testing. If were to take someone's word based on internet postings about the P320 I would tend to believe Bruce Gray over anyone else.

However, you are correct in that true, controlled, and independent testing may be necessary to truly know if this is a legitimate issue.

I was responding to the assertion that the test is not repeatable. I believe that the test shown is not only repeatable, but EASILY repeatable. The real question is if the results will be readily reproduced

Not a single person in this thread, or any thread that I've seen has claimed that this single video is statistically significant. What has been said that it is concerning IF true. I agree that we need to see lots more testing before we panic.

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

saigonsmuggler

Member

posted

Yeah if this problem is statistically significant, it'd be on a whole another level, as in a ton of crap has hit a propeller at full power.. What people are saying is that it should be a big 0% of a dropped fire happening.

Posts: 1814 | Location: Austin TX | Registered: October 30, 2003

Ignored post by saigonsmuggler posted

qxsoup

Just an ACARS message
with feelings
Picture of qxsoup

posted

Rx, just give it up please. You are beating a dead horse here

____________________________

220/229/228/226/P6/225/XO/SP2022/239

Posts: 3066 | Location: The Queen City (the one in Ohio) | Registered: May 12, 2008

Ignored post by qxsoup posted

JBnTX

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:

The P320 is not drop safe in all versions. End of story.

So what if the P320 is not drop safe?

No pistol is 100% drop safe.
Are you as equally concerned about them too?

Posts: 122 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 04, 2008

Ignored post by JBnTX posted

jljones

Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones

posted

The 17 contract is not going to be under scrutiny. It has a manual safety and will not discharge for the reasons presented, if true.

www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"

Posts: 37258 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004

Ignored post by jljones posted

Member

posted

Whenever ANY article is posted to ANY gun forum where someone has an ND and claims the pistol fell, EVERYONE will always claim that the person in question must have pulled the trigger. Next, they will quote the old adage that "modern" firearms will not fire when dropped.

So can you explain to me how "No Pistol is 100% drop safe"? Because this is news to me as I've never seen any other non-recalled pistol fire when dropped.

quote:
Originally posted by JBnTX:
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:

The P320 is not drop safe in all versions. End of story.

So what if the P320 is not drop safe?

No pistol is 100% drop safe.
Are you as equally concerned about them too?

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

RHINOWSO

Go ahead punk, make my day

posted

quote:
Originally posted by JBnTX:
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:

The P320 is not drop safe in all versions. End of story.

So what if the P320 is not drop safe?

No pistol is 100% drop safe.
Are you as equally concerned about them too?

Post some examples of other modern firearms discharging in the manner posted. That would at least add the air of credibility to your opinion.

Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008

Ignored post by RHINOWSO posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
quote:
Originally posted by JBnTX:
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:

The P320 is not drop safe in all versions. End of story.

So what if the P320 is not drop safe?

No pistol is 100% drop safe.
Are you as equally concerned about them too?

Sure. Which ones are you talking about and why aren't they drop safe?

Cocked 1911s without modification will often fire if dropped on the muzzle, but that can be corrected with a Ti firing pin.

A cocked P226 or Beretta won't fire if dropped because there is no combination of bouncing internal parts which won't get caught by other parts - like the half cock and firing pin safety. And they get caught because of the relatively longer lock time of the hammer vs. a striker.

A Glock has sequential safeties that make any single impact impossible to cause the other components to move. Like a tabbed trigger.

A VP9 might lose its striker contact with the sear if smacked right, but the trigger won't move and the rotating firing pin safety will catch it.

Everything else that I'm aware of has already been recalled, like Ruger SR9s and Remington 700s.

To what are you referring?

The original 1911s are arguably not "modern" designs. Plus aren't most newer 1911s Series 80s with the firing pin block?

I suppose improperly decocked hammer fired pistols might qualify, but I don't think those fit the spirit of this discussion. In either case, I can't think of ANY non-recalled pistol design from the last 20 years where a drop from a valid condition of carry would set off a round.

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

GJM AK

Member

posted

Buddy of mine shoots a 320 in USPSA Production, made M with the FS 320 and really likes the platform. Tested a drop today from 30 inches onto carpeted cement with a stock 320C (other than a GGI PELT trigger), and it discharged a primed case on the first drop.

https://youtu.be/ch7si_VQsGA

Posts: 186 | Registered: September 19, 2013

Ignored post by GJM AK posted