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Hi Konata,
You are asking a lot of good questions most all are subjective to your eyes.

I noticed your location is "In the Gilded Cage" ~ if that is a reference to CA and if you're in the SoCal area feel free to grab my email address from my profile. I am willing to meet you at one of the public ranges to let you have a go shooting my P226 or P320 having RDS.

If you're not in the SoCal area, I suggest you call some of the ranges near you to find out who has a RDS mounted to a rental pistol. Don't worry about the brand or pistol, just get some eye/trigger time under your belt to help you figure out if the cost is worth the results for how you shoot.

I will add this realization from my experience. Using iron or optics, your draw and presentation is an important factor. If your presentation is sloppy, acquiring the dot will be inconsistent. If your presentation is all over the place, you still pick-up iron sights but you will miss center target. With the RDS, you don't see the dot until you are extending the pistol at eye-level. Having a sloppy presentation has been frustrating to others who have used my pistols wanting to try a RDS for the first time.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Delta-3:

I've been running a 06 type 2 on my M&P for over 3 years now. Probably 3500 rounds (+or-) and I've had no issues with it. I leave it on 24/7 and it's still on the original battery. (I'll change it in the spring)

3500 rounds? So, you've used it one day at the range

Question on the 24/7: I've seen reports battery life could be measured in weeks at setting 10 (forgot actually setting number, but highest level). Years if setting 6 but it's not really a practical setting outdoors; more like 7 or 8. So 3 years of battery on what setting? I'm okay setting it to some value outside and then a lower value at home. But not sure what the expected battery life would be. If at least 1 year, then that's good. Acro wasn't cutting it.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
I prefer plain black for irons with an optic.

I wish I had gone that way, too, and saved some money. I went with Trijicon Bright and Tough suppressor sights, green dot, with the white rings. The front sight tritium is virtually useless through the glass on my RMR. In the dark, that front dot is about 99% filtered out by the lens coating on my RMR. I can still see the white ring if there is enough light, but the green dot is virtually eliminated. My RMR has a green dot, so the coating on the front of the RMR lense is green which reflects green light away, so little green light makes it through. An amber dot might show through. And I don't know how much much a red dot RMR will filter out green light.

In a washout situation, where you're looking from a very dark area into a bright area, the sights stand out well - but under those circumstances the dot isn't need. Though that front tritium dot does assist in very dark lighting somewhat in the presentation until it becomes invisible on the other side of the glass.

I'm so confused with irons and what heights to get, especially since different makers use different reference points (only Trijicon indicates the full spec). Having a hard time finding desired width (front and notch) and color as well.

Sleep: thanks for offer. I'm a little far away but appreciate it. Most parts are actually on order - I'm pretty confident I can adapt to the RDS. Mostly just a question of practical utility vs cost ($800-900 per gun). I'm not a serious user and budget is tight.

For reference, here is my Glock 17 Gen 5. It has Trijicon Bright and Tough suppressor sights for a Glock 17. The RMR is on a Trijicon sealing plate and mounted on one of the MOS plates supplied with the gun. The sight co-witness perfectly and the RMR dot sits on top of the front sight.



Just can't see the front sight tritium through the RMR window, just the white ring it sits in.

Micropterus, my memory is that you don't have an RMR with a battery, which is clearly not the norm, and they truly suck in lots of ways. If that's true get an RMR type 2 06 or 07 and you will not have any issues on seeing the front tritium sight.

quote:

But not sure what the expected battery life would be.

I carry an RMR06. I don't like the autoadjust so twice a day I adjust it manually. When its dark and then when I get up. The dot is up in the day and obviously down at night. I change the battery annually. I have never had an issue with that strategy. I have competition guns that have gone years without a battery change FWIW, but its not probably a good benchmark as I wouldn't do that strategy for something I carry.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I'm so confused with irons and what heights to get, especially since different makers use different reference points (only Trijicon indicates the full spec). Having a hard time finding desired width (front and notch) and color as well.

Sleep: thanks for offer. I'm a little far away but appreciate it. Most parts are actually on order - I'm pretty confident I can adapt to the RDS. Mostly just a question of practical utility vs cost ($800-900 per gun). I'm not a serious user and budget is tight.

I went with Ameriglo GL-429 XL supressor sights. They are a lower 1/3rd co-witness on a milled slide (I have JagerWerks milling), so they are out of the way of the window for the most part.

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/...2.1560217939.JPG?c=2

quote:

hrcjon -
Micropterus, my memory is that you don't have an RMR with a battery, which is clearly not the norm, and they truly suck in lots of ways. If that's true get an RMR type 2 06 or 07 and you will not have any issues on seeing the front tritium sight.

How does it suck "in a lot of ways?" That I can barely see the tritium dot through the glass in the pitch dark isn't enough. That was my fault, I should have known that green light and green lens coatings don't mix. I should have gone amber or no tritium at all. But I'll never have a dead battery. I'll never have electronics problem. It will never get wet enough to damage anything. The dot is the perfect size for me. Brightness self adjusts - it's always bright enough. I've got a 15 year warranty on the tritium versus a 5 year warranty on the electronics. I don't get it. I specifically chose it over a red dot model for those reasons. Mine's the exact sight chosen by the USMC has back up on their rifle and machine-gun mounted ACOGs, so it's obviously tough. So why would I want an electronic red dot?

I have put the Trijicon suppressor height night sights on a zillion different guns, some milled, MOS, custom adapters, etc. etc. And on none of them has the height bothered me or affected the POA/POI to matter in how I see myself using them. JLJones says the slightly lower front large frame ones are better, but I have not tested that, but as usual I suspect he knows and can advise the magnitude of the difference.

Thanks guys - that helps narrow down the iron sight choices a bit.

quote:

How does it suck "in a lot of ways?"

Ok here goes based on my experience. When I got into this I literally got one of everything Trijicon makes for an RMR both type and reticle. I ran them in competitions in both the daytime and at night, I carried them daily and tested them in the conditions I find myself in normally and did just about everything I could to figure out which works -or doesn't work- for me. The non adjustable sights never generate the correct amount of dot illumination. Its either too much or too little. Stand in the sun while your target is in the shadows, stand in the shade while your target is under intense illumination, try shooting at night with a decent light on the gun and illumination from behind by another source, the conditions it doesn't work are many. And instead of a quick push + or - your f***ed. At our normal steel matches I would know enough to tape the collector when shooting early in the day, but that doesn't really work in real life. And using the amber color doesn't fix it. Yup you get no battery. But the benefits of the battery and an adjustable intensity by the user outweigh the battery change issue. I have loaned my dual illuminated RMR to numerous people that I shoot with considering an RMR and universally it has come back with the comment they are buying an adjustable RMR. I have found the reliability of the T2 RMR's very acceptable. Again that's just me and my testing over a pretty long period and lots of rounds. As for dot size that's a personal thing. I have found that in competition from 0-30ish yards which is all I normally shoot a pistol in for ranges I am faster and way more accurate with the 3.25dot. The difference to the 6moa isn't much and there is no larger dot to test in the adjustable range. What works for you is what works for you. Backing up the acog is a different problem than a primary sight. Socom's choice is the RMR06. I really place no relevance on either, get what works best for you. All just FWIW and my experience. But my conclusion after years of trying different options is that for the vast, vast majority of people an RMR type 2 06 or 07 will be the best choice in the current product line.

Oh, okay. I don't have the benefit of having bought every type of RMR ever produced in all dot options. That's a lot of RMRs. And I don't compete now a days. But I have found the illumination level to be perfect in almost all situations I've tested it in. The only time it has been too dim is in a washout situation. As far as being in a bright area with my target being in a dark area - that I have a whole lot of experience with. I handgun hunted for years with Burris Fast Fires and a dot that was too dim for the amount of light I was standing in, when strong sunlight is hitting a stainless steel handgun, leaves, etc, regardless if something the size of squirrel's head was nestled in the shadows in the crotch of a tree, especially with a busy background, was more than just annoying, it was a recipe for a miss or wounded animal I couldn't recover. But to each his own.

My RMR has a 9 moa dot that is almost exactly the same size as the white dot on the front sight when viewed through the window. I like that. The dot jumps out at me.

I half thought this sight might end up on a .44 Magnum. And I specifically did not want the red dot version of my sight on my .44. It's not out of the realm of possibility that I'll put the green RMR on my revolver, and replace it on the G17 with a red dot RMR - I don't know yet, I'm wishy washy about it.

For now it stays on my G17. I like it. I does everything I want it to do. It has a couple of issues, but for me, it far outweighs the negative I see in a red dot for what I want to use it for.

This is a picture I took a few minutes ago in a pitch dark room. The G17 on the right has standard Trijicon Bright and Tough sites. The G17 on the left is mine with the RMR. You get a wee bit of white light from the front sight through the glass, but not much, and green color is completely filtered out.

What is the practical utility of the non adjustable RMR (dual illuminated)? Is it just optically compromised but for the benefit of no battery (ie - you're in the desert and not very convenient to get a battery)? Assuming batteries readily available if your stock runs out, is there a practical utility to the dual illuminated versions?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
What is the practical utility of the non adjustable RMR (dual illuminated)? Is it just optically compromised but for the benefit of no battery (ie - you're in the dessert and not very convenient to get a battery)? Assuming batteries readily available if you're stock runs out, is there a practical utility to the dual illuminated versions?

The biggest pitfall for me is that the dot washes out when looking from a dark area into a very bright area. You can create a washout situation with a weapons mounted light. And you can't see the green tritium light on the front sight through the lens.

The upside is that they are self adjusting for brightness. In washout lighting when you can't see the dot well, you can see the back up sights exceptionally well. So back up sights are a must for the dual illuminated RMR. I find it perfect in all situations except the washout situation. I'm outside, it's bright. I'm inside its dimmer. In complete darkness it is very much bright enough, brighter than the dots on the sights. There are no electronics, so no batteries and fewer issues if water gets into it. Theoretically its more rugged due to lack of electronics. And it has a 15 year warranty on the tritium which is longer than I will likely keep the sight. It's exactly the same dimensions as the red dot versions.

I came by using the large frame sights by accident. I built a Gen5 19 with an RMR07. Never shot it with irons. I had to rob the RMR to put it on a replacement duty gun, because I didn’t have a spare RMR06 at the time.

Fast forward a couple months and I was doing some ammo testing at the 25 yard line. I aimed the 19 low in the bullseye where I normally do to hit center of bull. And I put 10 rounds low in the bull. With the large frame suppressor sights.

I brought the aim point of aim, point of impact and shot 10x. It’s a sample size of one.

Next gun I build will probably be a 34. I will buy another set of large frame sights to see if it duplicates what happened on the 19. If that’s the case, I may try a set of large frame HDs on another iron sighted pistol.

interesting. okay, i may stick to standard frame sights for now because that's what i'm used to. but will keep this in mind for future testing. i'm getting to the point where i need to start replacing sets (tritium getting old). let me know results if you do further testing.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

plain black Ameriglo suppressor sights

I can't even imagine the point of that on a carry gun. When you need them you need them in both daytime or nightime. And I find one of the areas that the RMR is weak in that the dot may not be a brightness that you want when the light situation varies dramatically between you (and the gun) and that target and at least for me the NS can help overcome that situation.

I have found tritium sights of all types to very seldom be that useful. If it's dark enough to see the tritium, it's not light enough to see the target. With a weapon mounted or handheld light, the outline of the sights is clearly visible over the illuminated target and tritium becomes challenging to see.

I also don't have tritium on any of my long guns with or without optics. Still waiting to get kilt in the streets over it.

quote:

3500 rounds? So, you've used it one day at the range Smile

Question on the 24/7: I've seen reports battery life could be measured in weeks at setting 10 (forgot actually setting number, but highest level). Years if setting 6 but it's not really a practical setting outdoors; more like 7 or 8. So 3 years of battery on what setting? I'm okay setting it to some value outside and then a lower value at home. But not sure what the expected battery life would be. If at least 1 year, then that's good. Acro wasn't cutting it.

I wish I could burn through that much ammo in one range session! lol
I generally have it on the "auto" setting & that has worked quite well. On manual, I would leave it on a lower setting of 4-5. So far, battery life has been very good. I will change them out every two years but wanted to see how long this one would go before losing power.

quote:

I have found tritium sights of all types to very seldom be that useful. If it's dark enough to see the tritium, it's not light enough to see the target. With a weapon mounted or handheld light, the outline of the sights is clearly visible over the illuminated target and tritium becomes challenging to see.

I also don't have tritium on any of my long guns with or without optics.

This has been my experience as well.