quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I do tend to overthink.

Yeah, no thinking allowed about complex questions. Heck, that might prompt someone else to start thinking, and then where would we be? The thought doesn’t bear thinking (and for good reason).
And if a question has ever been asked here (and especially if it was answered), you should know that and never bring it up again lest someone be forced to open the thread and offer that comment.



I have wondered—and even dared to ask a time or two—how optical sights, especially those with open emitters, will be perceived to fare under difficult environmental conditions such as snow, heavy rain, or contaminants like dust and dirt once they become more common. I can hear the eyeballs rolling up and getting stuck there even as I type this so I don’t expect informative answers at this time, but it will be interesting to monitor in the future.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

So while the rmr seems in wide use, I still have legit concerns re: open emitter? People tend to say I overthink things. Sometimes, I’m not sure if I am or not. But my gut was a little uneasy here. But I couldn’t find a reason to refute what seems to be broad and issue free adoption of the rmr.

I could get an rmr setup just to get experience but not use for carry. Wait for a more robust solution.

Cat Crap or Rain X are both options.

Moisture in the emitter may cause a starburst dot, but we're talking moisture all the way down in there. I have not noticed the issue shooting RDS handguns in the rain but am aware of the possibility. For a concealed carry gun, the probabilities are so remote that I wouldn't even consider it beyond knowing it's possible and having a plan to shoot the gun if the dot fails.

I've never had a dot failure, but I have had a front sight or two fall off over the years. Yet here we are, worried about the optic solely by virtue of it being electronic.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Oh, one thing caught my eye, DaBigBR: you mention you're not aware of 'widespread' problems but how about localized issues? You've heard of issues here and there about one or the other slide type?

ETA: after some research and anecdotes, I'm going to stay with basic slide, not windows. Seems like any slide weight differences from stock are minimal and no functional issues with RMR mounted. So, in the absence of a clear benefit of the window, I'm sticking with 'stock'

None. I was just trying to keep ahead of the "one time on Facebook" story about a drop off sweat falling into the lightening cut, reacting with some carbon, and somehow locking the gun up beyond repair.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:

Serious use RDS guns must have backup irons, and I personally plan on changing to closed emitter sights at least on some of my Glocks.

Like what? The only brand I know that offers is Aimpoint but the Acro seems to suffer from battery life issues.

Are there other tier 1 options? Or just wait for Acro V2?

I'm testing out a Holosun509T on a Glock 34 and its great so far. Closed emitter and without the ACROs battery issues. I thought the larger size would bother me but its about impossible to lose the dot under recoil on it.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:

Serious use RDS guns must have backup irons, and I personally plan on changing to closed emitter sights at least on some of my Glocks.

Like what? The only brand I know that offers is Aimpoint but the Acro seems to suffer from battery life issues.

If you want a sight protected from the elements, Aimpoint would appear to be the route you'll have to pursue...I don't think of having to change your battery once a year is a major issue

I didn't see an answer on those that failed mentioned earlier. But here's my personal experience. I have carried an RMR for years. THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IS DUST ON THE WINDOW, which I literally have to address everyday. I do it at bedtime. I have shot a gun with an optic in competition for tens and tens of thousands of rounds in competition. Lots of different kinds of events in all kinds of conditions. From the holster (IWB) in any condition...hot, cold, wet, snow, bright, dark, literally anything you can name short of double negative numbers below zero (we don't have those here) or temps in the low 100's (those either) I have never had a problem for a string of fire. That's certainly longer than any likely personal defensive event. With the gun in the holster (as is the safety norm at matches) I have stood around in truly terrible conditions to wait my turn, also no issues other than maybe having to flick the gun to get rid of standing water on the lens. I also walk my dogs at night in my woods every day and often test draw in really awful conditions and different light conditions to see exactly what to expect. My conclusions on those events is that the RMR is never worse than my glasses. If they are unusable the RMR is likely too and action has to be taken. I would never blow on one as someone above said, but a quick finger wipe of glasses and rmr got everything to usable conditions at least for short periods. I have never tossed mine in the snow or mud to see what happens, but I don't think that matters. I have been swimming with it, no issues to report. Things I know you can't do are take a cold RMR into a warm humid environment and have visibility. So for example 0 outside, gun in your trunk and then walk into a warm environment like a range. Not a chance. This particular issue is why I would never use an RMR on a defensive rifle which by definition won't be on body carry. But at this point the small number of negatives I have had are dwarfed by the complete and total upgrade to the accuracy and speed of my shooting. I literally cannot conceive of the idea that you wouldn't run one on every pistol or carbine you consider a serious gun. But that's just me. I have an optic now on everything I consider serious.

Moisture - fogging, water droplets, etc - may render the sight useless through light distortion or occlusion. My RMR has no electronics at all, it's tritium and fiber optic. A little fog on the inside of the glass and the dot isn't visible at all. And there is zero visibility through the glass to use the iron sights.

So when the discussion of rain came up, something I hadn't considered, I examined mine a little more closely. There's a concave area behind the glass where water could pool, which would obliterate the light/dot emitter, if it weren't for two drain holes, one on either side of the device. Since water is adhesive, I am not sure how how effective they would be.

It seems the effectiveness of the sight is dependent on the back side of the lens and the dot emitter being perfectly clean. Any obstruction - fog, water droplets, dust - it seems, would reduce the brightness of the dot, or possibly obliterate it entirely.

I thought it might be a pretty good sight on a .44 Magnum revolver for deer hunting and I may try it that role one day. I've used Burris Fast Fires on .22s for small game and they worked reasonably well, but squirrels were never so important to me that I hunted them in the rain. So it would be interesting to see how it performs on a big game hunt.

I'm not sure I would trust it on a dusty Cape Buffalo, Rhino or Elephant hunt. Though double-maker Heym accommodates them on their biggest caliber rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

If you want a sight protected from the elements, Aimpoint would appear to be the route you'll have to pursue...I don't think of having to change your battery once a year is a major issue

I can live w/ annual battery changes, especially since no un-mounting required. But I was reading that battery life may be measured in days or weeks, not even months. And even if it's months, that's too frequent. Min for me would be annually.

I'll try to do some more research and see what the real practical life is. I'd be okay turning off when not carrying but I would probably leave it on at some appropriate setting if it's supposed to be in a ready condition (ie - including bedside at night).

Are you sure annually? If not, I'll try to do some more research. Again, my impression is weeks or maybe months (2-3).

If annually, then Acro is back on the table. If weeks or months, RMR just for experience is the default but not in 'rotation' duty.

Shot in heavy rain yesterday during quarterly quals.. Zero issues. Holster was a 6360RDS.

A couple of times, I had water pooling on the lens. Whenever you pull the trigger, it slings anything left on the lens off.

So no issues? Rmr fully good to go even under adverse conditions?

I would assume so if you’ve fully converted. But then you’re much more experienced in real time failure recovery than many of us. At least me.

ETA: any thoughts on rmr vs acro? Both good or would you recommend rmr over acro? If so, why other than battery life?

An RMR with water on the back side of the lens:

I had a minor issue at 25. Between rain, the level I had the dot turned up to, and the x300, the dot was a little weak. The target is light blue with a white oval in the middle. I didn’t have a problem at 3, 5, 7 or 15.

Aside from that, I had a great day. 400 points out of 400 points.

The only two downsides of the Acro is battery life and size.

You’ll always have naysayers. My advice is try stuff yourself and don’t rely on dates stuff you find on the internet, or neigh-sayers. You buy virtually any optic, don’t like it, sell it.

No way I’m ever going back to irons, or iron sights on a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
An RMR with water on the back side of the lens:

Even the camera becomes target focused.

quote:

Are you sure annually?

It wasn't mine, belonged to a friend.

I'd get a Holosun HE509T if I wanted an enclosed sight for a handgun.

The only enclosed red dot I have is a Holosun HS512C on my AR

The 509T is good stuff. It really isn't that much larger (at all) than an RMR or 507C. The included RMR footprint adapter is a little chunky for me. More solutions that are either 1) direct milled or 2) low-profile plates that interface with modular cuts are needed to really get it to take hold.

The ACRO's battery life is not acceptable.

Sigh. Okay, I'm just gonna make a decision and we'll see how it turns out. Either wind up being carried or relegated to range duty. I just need to start on something to gain experience.

I'm gonna go with the RMR 3.25 (and not the 6moa). I figure if my 2moa T2 is big enough, 3.25moa should be okay. While the Acro is readily in stock (rds and slide), I'm averse to the battery life. It's on the level of range use as far as I can tell. I'm not changing battery every month. (other option here is to wait and see if a new Acro is introduced at SHOT).

Final question if you guys will indulge me. In the absence of coupons, discount codes, sales and as long as I'm waiting for stock (backorder), any recommendations between the Brownell's slide (no window) or the Zev Duty slide?

https://www.brownells.com/hand...2-134618-206179.aspx

https://www.zevtechnologies.co...MR-Cut-3rd-Gen-Black

Did some training in the snow storm on Monday. No issues with the 3.25 RMR on duty gun (Glock 31)
Duty holster is the 6360rds as well.

Did a round with my personal gun using a Raven holster and had no issues as well. I have the same RMR on my off duty gun. (Glock 45)


Both guns had the slide milled by Maple Leaf FA.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I had a minor issue at 25. Between rain, the level I had the dot turned up to, and the x300, the dot was a little weak. The target is light blue with a white oval in the middle. I didn’t have a problem at 3, 5, 7 or 15.

Aside from that, I had a great day. 400 points out of 400 points.

The only two downsides of the Acro is battery life and size.

You’ll always have naysayers. My advice is try stuff yourself and don’t rely on dates stuff you find on the internet, or neigh-sayers. You buy virtually any optic, don’t like it, sell it.

No way I’m ever going back to irons, or iron sights on a rifle.

I too will never go back to irons on a pistol. Faster and more accuarate with a RMR/SRO. Shot timer is a wonderful tool. Tons of rounds on both RMR/SRO, no problems. CCW G45/SRO.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:

Serious use RDS guns must have backup irons, and I personally plan on changing to closed emitter sights at least on some of my Glocks.

Like what? The only brand I know that offers is Aimpoint but the Acro seems to suffer from battery life issues.

Are there other tier 1 options? Or just wait for Acro V2?

I am waiting for a specific adapter plate for the 509T and also if ACRO is going to come out with 2032 battery. I plan on getting both.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
two open emitter RDS guns sidelined
what brand?

Trijicon and Leupold.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Shot in heavy rain yesterday during quarterly quals.. Zero issues. Holster was a 6360RDS.

A couple of times, I had water pooling on the lens. Whenever you pull the trigger, it slings anything left on the lens off.

Lens wasn't much of the issue although after one hour of shooting in the rain powder residue outta ejection port mixed with water became obnoxious. That said, one can just put a tape over and shoot with an occluded lens technique. Problem was water in the emitter. The Trijicon (SRO) I was able to clean up in my hotel with a Q tip, the DPP required a Q tip and blow dryer to get back online. Again, this was a relatively high round training class with open gaming gear.