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Member |
Thanks. You've been helpful and I'm sure i can the rmr running. As i adapt to the rmr and buy more slides, just wondering if i should stick with the slide model i have, move to mos, or move to the zev / brownell studded design. Sounds like stick with what i have or mos. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Member |
I have one on a Sig 320 Compact that is unbelievably accurate and easy once you get a feel for sighting in... I use the iron sight first and then refine with the dot... now with all that said... I still have to fall back on what I learned from coastal navigation.. never rely totally on electronics... also something else you mentioned in the original post... wanting to be more accurate out past 20 yards.... if I'm needing to 'defend' myself from someone that far away... I really want a rifle and there is a good chance my better choice is just to run away. In the force on force classes I've taken I learned that just about all the time in a close deadly force encounter you don't even have time to use the sights on the handgun. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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It's my way or the Highway |
You specifically mentioned 20 yards in your first post. So please hear me out. Are you practicing enough one handed shooting? Strong and support hand? Most of my research into the dot has shown that most are not using it from a support hand or primary hand stand point. When you move out to 20 yards, a small dot will be twerking harder than Cardi B in her latest video, for me the 6.5 dot is perfect, even out to 150 yards with a handgun two handed or one handed. I've also found that the 6.5 seems to have a more defined dot and doesn't bloom as much as the smaller dots. I've been told over and over that a smaller dot is better, however the results of the test determined that it is a lie. Maybe a lie is harsh, but the reality is we take information and think we are headed in the right direction without proper application. Through my own shooting with a heavy emphasis on marksmanship (two handed and one handed) the 6.5 dot is no slouch, and this information is from my personal experience with the RMR 06 and 07 - owning and using both. I think dot size is overrated and I'm proof that smaller isn't better on a handgun. Also there was no "learning curve" for me. I kept hearing that. I think it can help understand specifics like refining your shooting stroke and feedback in trigger control in dryfire especially one handed. But all the normal stuff I was told, I found that it was regurgitation of something someone told them.This message has been edited. Last edited by: piedrarc, | |||
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| Member |
Thanks. I'm still learning about what to do when out in the forests. But in my condition, running is not an option. And perhaps I should carry a rifle while out in the wilderness but for now, all I have is a handgun. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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| Member |
I'm going to test out the 6moa dot. I'm just surprised how much larger it is compared to the T1 2moa dot. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
For your style of shooting, I think you'll be well served by the larger dot No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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| Member |
I suck so bigger dot is better?  "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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| Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
A smaller dot will cause you to try to center it. Covering is coarser than centering No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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| Member |
That's very funny konata88. I find discussions on dot size amusing. Since it really depends on what you want to do. I shoot handguns mostly in the range of 0-30y (at least competitively) and always on the clock at targets that are in general 8" in size. I spent about 10k rounds of ammo (before that was impossible) over the course of a competitive season testing if I was better with the RMR06 or 07. My conclusion it doesn't matter a whole lot even if I am a tiny bit better with the RMR06 at longer ranges like 25y. The dot doesn't imitate CardiB and it covers less of the target area a small advantage in aiming quickly. But I am faster at close ranges with the RMR07 so that's what's on my carry gun. You will be very happy with the RMR07. If that's all I had I'd be perfectly happy. I have no experience -at all- using pistols at 150y so I leave it to piedrarc to advise on the best solution in that area. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Member |
Yea. That makes sense. I need to stop striving for a perfect sight picture. At least until my trigger control improves. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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| Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
There is as much chance of getting a perfect sight picture with a red dot as there is of holding a laser pointer still during a presentation No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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| Member |
Ha! You forget I do presentations for a living. I can hold that pointer rock steady. I think this RDS will be fine, but remember how much I hated that stupid grip laser (granted, still a newbie at that time; at least now I'm just barely incompetent)? "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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| Member |
I have read that a standard-ish front sight (.125") is about 13 MOA. Obviously that will vary some with stance and arm length (things that impact eye to dot distance), but when you figure that even a 6.5 MOA dot is half that size, most optics are going to be notably more precise. I personally have found that I prefer the 1 MOA RMRs and 2 MOA Holosuns, but the differences in speed and accuracy are small enough that I can't say it's an objective preference. I've shot the 6.5 MOA RMR less than 1, 2, or 3.25 MOA optics (as I don't own a 6.5 myself) but did like that the dot was rounder with my mild astigmatism compared to some of the larger ones. I have read positive things about the 8 MOA circle reticle that Holosun offers on the 407co, but have never tried it myself. I have also read some material from the_theory_police on instagram showing that even the 32 MOA circle only on some Holosuns still produced remarkable accuracy comparable to the dot only reticle. The comparison was shooting the FBI Instructor Bullseye COF, so time was not much of a factor. | |||
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| Member |
Thanks for all the help guys. The RMR seems to function fine and the 6moa dot is also fine. Still deciding on irons, likely just start with the Trij; I can't figure out the heights for other brands to compare to the Trij (which I assume just work). Trij makes it easy so I'm probably going to start there (just need to find stock - white/tritium up front with black / tritium in the rear). I was interested in Ameriglo (thinner front and wider notch in rear) but again, I couldn't figure out sight heights so will just stick w/ Trij. I don't know why Ameriglo makes it so difficult to find dimensions. Presentation: mostly okay. I need practice and repetitions but I'm close. The one thing I did notice is that presentation tends to be off if POA is elevated or lower than a target that's basically straight ahead. I'll figure it out; thanks to 9mmE, I know what to do. Question: I like the way the slide is cut for the RMR; the flush, standard size screw holes (6-32; although extractor side is shorter screw) and with some sort of recoil ledge up front. I can't find the slide in stock anywhere and I'm not sure they will be in stock in the near future. Looking for alternatives. Does anyone know if Zev (Duty or Citadel) slides are flush cut w/ 6-32 screw holes? They seem to have the recoil ledge up front (at the front end of the RMR cut). Would like to standardize on set up and screws..... I'm going to avoid the Brownell slide style (4-40 screw with raised screw holes). Any other reasonably prices, reliable slides like this? "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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| Member |
This viewpoint is extremely well written and presented. Too often on forums individuals present a different view in a sarcastic manner with opinions and not any fact or experience-based information that can be helpful. Posts like this 1 are where forums shine and are extremely helpful to others. Thank you for your post I found it very helpful for myself especially since I am still considering putting a red dot on a few pistols. I only have one Vortex Red Dot on a Ruger 22/45 lite and even though it is only a target pistol I can relate very much to your statements about consistently finding the dot. Thanks again for the post. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Democracy is 2 Wolves & a Lamb debating the lunch menu. Liberty is a well armed Lamb! | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
You're welcome. Once again, just sharing my personal experience...ymmv. There are others here like jljones who are vastly more accomplished shooters than I am who are at a very different place with it...and their feedback is a large part of what has kept me from giving up on it altogether. I'm convinced that any problems I'm having with the dot are more me related than gear related...but I'm not going to carry it outside the range until I'm confident that I can operate it more effectively than I can irons across the board. FWIW I love a red dot on a rifle. It's vastly superior to irons in every way (except maybe the added weight and complexity...but definitely worth it, imo). Having a stock to establish a cheek weld against, and a larger objective, pretty much eliminates the hunting for the dot that can happen with a handgun RDS. I don't have to get my rifle out much at work, but I did the other night, and I was incredibly grateful to have that dot instead of black iron sights in the dark. I'm hoping that at some point I feel the same way about my handgun RMR...I'm just not there yet. | |||
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