When I responded "no" earlier it was before all the excellent, thought provoking responses. I still say no.
In fact, if you really think about, the only thing that even keeps anyone buying the 1911 is the single action trigger and maybe aesthetics. Honestly, but for the trigger (which is awesome don't get me wrong) and how it looks (nothing like a beautiful stainless 5" ) would it have anything going for it ?
No way. You can now buy any number of pistols that works better, hold more rounds (in .45 or even better caliber) carries better, cleans easier, and are just as accurate. Maybe the trigger takes a little practice before you can get the same accuracy, and maybe they look more like tools, but they are clearly better designed and functioning pistols.I
Again, if it weren't for the trigger would this question even be asked ??
I say no

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by mlazarus:
I wonder why the 1911, and its progeny, remain so popular with top competition shooters?

The trigger.

The 1911's trigger mechanism is easier to tweak into being ultra light/short/crisp. This, combined with the straight-back trigger design, helps minimizes any adverse input from the shooter into the gun from a non-optimal trigger press, compared to a longer/heavier trigger and/or a pivoting trigger design. And this usually results in greater functional accuracy.

So, to summarize, if you’re going to suck, you’ll suck less with a 1911.

I do believe that the G34 is the most widely used pistol in the games across the board.

Jerry, what are your thoughts about a G34 as a duty gun?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So, to summarize, if you’re going to suck, you’ll suck less with a 1911.

Yep. Pretty much.

Or, if we're being diplomatic, it's "more tolerant of fundamental errors" than other trigger designs.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
Jerry, what are your thoughts about a G34 as a duty gun?

Too long.
You'd be like Texas Red, shot before you cleared leather.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Which to be honest is a GAME. The 1911 was designed as a combat pistol and there are better options today.

I missed this the first time I read it. If your idea of combat involves a pistol you're doing it wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by bcjwriter:
Mine....I need to get these back in my carry rotation.

How do you like that TLE II RL? I've been thinking about a 10mm for a while now, and on paper that gun checks all my boxes. I'd kinda written it off, because...well...Kimber, but I've seen several decent first-hand Kimber reviews lately and am beginning to wonder if their reputation isn't more based on internet hysteria than actual fact.

Kimbers are great guns. I carried the TLE / RL II for a couple of years as my duty gun (not the one in the picture - an earlier version with the external extractor). It worked great and I love the model. At worst you end up replacing the internals with non MIM parts if you’re a purist. Overall the main components are solid (slide/frame/barrel). But, to be fair, they are a 1911, so like any 1911 they need good TLC Maintenance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bcjwriter,

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
Jerry, what are your thoughts about a G34 as a duty gun?

I carried a 35 for a number of years in a Safariland 6360 holster when I was in patrol. There was no ascertainable difference in my draw speed between a 34 and 22 to the first shot.

I am a real big recoil impulse kind of guy. The recoil impulse difference in the 35 over the 22 was pretty huge. The shot to shot difference was quantifiable and noticeable. The only real downside was that the 35 pressed into the car seat because the holster was longer. Now, with that being said, I have officers that are carrying 34s in 6360s that are sold for G17s. We issue the 7TS version (may be 7360) with a light, and the 34 with a light fits. I say that to say if you are carrying a gun with a light on it, my only complaint goes away with the 7TS style duty holster.

I think there is a pretty huge reason why the G34 is the king of the games (over it's 17 and 19 brothers). If you do Frank Proctor style recoil tracking drills (where I learned it), the 34 tracks smoother than the 17 or 19. I shot about 600 rounds over the weekend through a buddy's (he has 4 Gen5G34s with Trijicon RMRs or SROs) and there was a huge difference in dot track compared to my Gen5G17 RMR.

The only potential issue of problem that I see arising is sights. What sights do you want to use? If you want to run my personal preference, Trijicon HDs, you'll have to get a Gen4 G34, non-MOS. The Gen5 G34 currently only comes in the MOS version. The standard rear for the HDs hang over the back of the slide on the MOS guns because the sight pocket sits further back to allow for the MOS attachment plate.
However, Trijicon advertises a MOS only set of HD sights for the MOS guns. It comes with a more traditional style rear sight that doesn't hang over the back. My job is ordering only MOS guns now, and the new MOS HD sights were ordered on the batch of guns last week, and I got the impression while the sights are being advertised, they are either in high demand or still vaporware.

In my opinion, yes the G34 is a very viable and desired choice for uniformed patrol and SWAT. Can it be a little bit of a pain for plainclothes? Yeah, it could be.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Which to be honest is a GAME. The 1911 was designed as a combat pistol and there are better options today.

I missed this the first time I read it. If your idea of combat involves a pistol you're doing it wrong.

I cede the point your honor.

For military battlefield combat, you are correct. But pretty much every LEO in the world carries a pistol, and if the SHTF, that's almost always what they have to fight with.

Maybe we're in the land of semantics between "defense" and "combat", but the ability of a pistol to function in a fight is hugely important to anyone carrying one.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Which to be honest is a GAME. The 1911 was designed as a combat pistol and there are better options today.

I missed this the first time I read it. If your idea of combat involves a pistol you're doing it wrong.

Thanks Jerry. Good info.

I don't consider it the pinnacle, but I do consider it a damn fine pistol - especially since it's over 100 years old.

quote:

Originally posted by longjohn:
You can now buy any number of pistols that works better, hold more rounds (in .45 or even better caliber) carries better, cleans easier, and are just as accurate. Maybe the trigger takes a little practice before you can get the same accuracy, and maybe they look more like tools, but they are clearly better designed and functioning pistols.

So after all of the thought provoking responses what I have decided is that perspective determines ones pinnacle. I am not a LEO, I am not military, or ex-military, and given my daily (until lately) presence in both a school and daycare, I carry very infrequently. I don't care about the round count, I actually enjoy cleaning my cars, my firearms, my watches, etc., and while I may be able with tens of thousands of rounds, years of training and practice, and a considerable investment in time shoot any of my other guns as well as the 1911 platform, that isn't reality. I am more accurate with a 1911, it carries fine for me, and I'm at a point in my life where I don't need any ugly tool (never owned a Glock, never will no matter how many pages the fanboys can type) over what works best for me, gives ma a sense of pride of ownership, and I just plain enjoy the most. Given that, no, nothing has eclipsed it.

A masterfully engineered design no doubt. Browning was a genious. But my pick for a "pinnacle" would be more recent. Like the HK USP.

It strikes me when you say you shoot it better than any other gun OP. Five years ago I was working as an instructor at the local indoor range. On a slow day, the owner had all the instructors take a pile of guns out on the range and shoot them. He wanted to determine what platform each of us shot most accurately and with speed.

For me, it wound up being an all steel 1911. I could consistently shoot it the fastest and with the most accuracy. Which is funny, because I would never carry one. I am not a fan of C&L carry and I cannot afford a 1911 that is reliable enough to stake my life on. But they are a remarkable design. Regards 18DAI

More 1911 porn, because... why not?

@ RogueJSK - I like it!

May I add one more of the Baer UTC, one I’ve posted elsewhere on this Forum?

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
A masterfully engineered design no doubt. Browning was a genious. But my pick for a "pinnacle" would be more recent. Like the HK USP.

It strikes me when you say you shoot it better than any other gun OP. Five years ago I was working as an instructor at the local indoor range. On a slow day, the owner had all the instructors take a pile of guns out on the range and shoot them. He wanted to determine what platform each of us shot most accurately and with speed.

For me, it wound up being an all steel 1911. I could consistently shoot it the fastest and with the most accuracy. Which is funny, because I would never carry one. I am not a fan of C&L carry and I cannot afford a 1911 that is reliable enough to stake my life on. But they are a remarkable design. Regards 18DAI

I never liked the USP, but I did have an HK45 and HK45c. Both were excellent pistols but I ended up going Glock because I wanted the same type pistol for carry and nightstand use. I also wanted a light on the mightstand gun and didn't want to have to buy another 1911 because none of mine have rails.

quote:

and didn't want to have to buy another 1911 because none of mine have rails.

Come on now, that just life giving you an opportunity! "But honey, I NEEEEEED this one, because none of my others will take a light!

I'm right there with ya, though...my nightstand gun is a P320 Carry. Matches my regular duty and carry gun, and a lot cheaper than buying a railed 1911 to sit in a safe. That, and it's the only gun I actually own with a rail.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Malamutes:

quote:

Originally posted by longjohn:
You can now buy any number of pistols that works better, hold more rounds (in .45 or even better caliber) carries better, cleans easier, and are just as accurate. Maybe the trigger takes a little practice before you can get the same accuracy, and maybe they look more like tools, but they are clearly better designed and functioning pistols.

So after all of the thought provoking responses what I have decided is that perspective determines ones pinnacle. I am not a LEO, I am not military, or ex-military, and given my daily (until lately) presence in both a school and daycare, I carry very infrequently. I don't care about the round count, I actually enjoy cleaning my cars, my firearms, my watches, etc., and while I may be able with tens of thousands of rounds, years of training and practice, and a considerable investment in time shoot any of my other guns as well as the 1911 platform, that isn't reality. I am more accurate with a 1911, it carries fine for me, and I'm at a point in my life where I don't need any ugly tool (never owned a Glock, never will no matter how many pages the fanboys can type) over what works best for me, gives ma a sense of pride of ownership, and I just plain enjoy the most. Given that, no, nothing has eclipsed it.

Not trying to argue because I understand where you are coming from. I shoot a 1911 best. Wouldn’t grab one if the SHTF. I don’t want to have to worry that is cleaned and oiled and the springs have been changed and the extractor has the right tension and the bullets OAL is within a very narrow window and I have a reliable magazine in it. I won’t care if it’s pretty. I will pick up a GLOCK or HK. Because they go bang every time and a lot of times before I need to reload or perform any maintenance.