quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
As for the crying, well it is what is it is whatever there reasons for it.

You're saying something without saying anything at all.

Either you think this kind of emotional display from grown men out in public is acceptable in an instance such as this, or you do not. If you think it's acceptable, don't qualify your response with meaningless internet-age quips such as "it is what it is."

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

Last night was COMPLETELY different. You could tell it was way more serious much more quickly.
At the stadium There was absolutely no commentary, no replay, no music, no nothing. Most everyone in the stadium thought he had died. And as of all reports so far he was nearly dead and at this point I don’t think anyone knows what will happen. He very well may pass once life support is removed.

^^^ exactly

The fact that it was an apparent life/death scenario made it different that like when Tua was hit or way back when Theisman broke his leg.
Those are not good situations but not the same as last night.
Hence the predictable actions of shutting down the game, etc.
If everything happened behind the scenes (locker room or wherever) this wouldn't have blown up in the media.
Instead the media fueled the fire (not that it wasn't a serious condition for the player) and changed the focus.
A reaction otherwise would be a catastrophic PR nightmare that would have crushed .... whoever got in it's way.

It comes down to the Glascow Coma Scale.

How long was that brain without blood and O2? If the GCS is low you don't survive and if it's high, you're walking out of the hospital.

The middle ground is the big discussion. My educated guess, with a family member who has gone through this, is that the intubation says it's a low score aka he can't breath on his own.

If that turns out to be true, he's not going to live more than 30 days and if he does, it's a miserable life.

He's having problems well-beyond just restoring his heartbeat.

I hesitate to say this, but what struck me most about the reaction last night was how flat footed the announcers were. I hesitate because I can’t say how great I would have been.
I kept thinking, as time went on, that they needed to bring in Chris Berman or call up a doc, or something. They kept switching from the booth announcers to the NY studio, as if they had a hot potato and didn’t know what to say.
The situation was different, but last night I kept recalling the October 17, 1989 World Series game when there was a 6.5 earthquake live during the pregame broadcasting. Al Michaels did an excellent job. I thought even then that Wow, this guy Michaels is bright, articulate, and a newscaster with a specialization in sports. Interestingly, Berman was at that game. ABC and ESPN took great pride later on in continuing that live broadcast and announcing a major news event over ? the next couple hours. Again, a very different situation for the guys last night, but I got the feeling they wanted to be out of the spotlight.

quote:

I kept thinking, as time went on, that they needed to bring in Chris Berman or call up a doc, or something. They kept switching from the booth announcers to the NY studio, as if they had a hot potato and didn’t know what to say.
The situation was different, but last night I kept recalling the October 17, 1989 World Series game when there was a 6.5 earthquake live during the pregame broadcasting. Al Michaels did an excellent job. I thought even then that Wow, this guy Michaels is bright, articulate, and a newscaster with a specialization in sports.

Yep. Good observations. I remember that Al Michaels World Series broadcast. You're right.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
So what you're saying is Miracle Max actually knew his shit. Mostly Dead, as opposed to All Dead, is a real thing.

From my own experience, Max was an absolute genius of a medical information.

I’ve been mostly dead a dozen times, and I’m still kicking.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
I have no problem with men crying when the circumstances warrant it. I think cancelling the game was unnecessary and against the interests of the fams in attendance and at home watching on TV. "The show goes on" should apply here.

I am not a fan of football (or any other team sport), but I think the PTB showed disrespect for the fans.

flashguy

Agreed. I wouldn't have stopped the game.

And I am from this 60 something year-old group, and we certainly aren't used to men crying in public and allowing themselves to show that much upset. (Of course had they won the Superbowl, they could show that emotion as much as they wanted.) I don't think those displays of emotion are improper or demeaning, even if my upbringing prevents me from acting that way myself.

I was fine with the dudes tearing up or even openly crying. They get caught up in the emotion of the game, the events transpiring, and likely see themselves lying out there on the field getting resuscitated on national television.

I was not fine with canceling the game and fully believe that the NFL told the coaches, “you’ve got 5 minutes”; even though both the NFL and Player’s association now deny that deadline took place.

There were millions and millions of dollars in play last night; as well as playoff and standing positions at play. To me this sets a precedent for canceling future games for … a leg break? A bad concussion?

No one will ever convince me that the NFL did not direct the teams that “the show must go on”, and the League folded when the coaches and players pushed back.

I felt the same way - it was all a show. The commentators and analysts back at the studio were acting ridiculous as others have said.

Also, this is NOT unprecedented - it happened before in the last game of the 1997 season between the Lions and Jets. Reggie Brown - he lost consciousness after a hit and his heart stopped - CPR saved his life.
Down for 17 minutes, then they resumed play.
So it was different last night, it was different in that everyone over-reacted to something that is part of the game. People get hurt and even have to get CPR.
But whatever, NFL is using flags in the pro bowl this year - it won't be long before every NFL game is flag football, and last nights response and attitude over this event will hasten the arrival of flags.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
I was fine with the dudes tearing up or even openly crying. They get caught up in the emotion of the game, the events transpiring, and likely see themselves lying out there on the field getting resuscitated on national television.

I was not fine with canceling the game and fully believe that the NFL told the coaches, “you’ve got 5 minutes”; even though both the NFL and Player’s association now deny that deadline took place.

There were millions and millions of dollars in play last night; as well as playoff and standing positions at play. To me this sets a precedent for canceling future games for … a leg break? A bad concussion?

No one will ever convince me that the NFL did not direct the teams that “the show must go on”, and the League folded when the coaches and players pushed back.

They watched 8 minutes of CPR/other life-saving measures, not knowing if he would make it. That had to be pretty intense and not something football players deal with. They spend more time with their teammates than their families during the season and have a tight bond. Not every player was crying, but some react to traumatic situations differently. There is some virtue signaling in the media today, but I can’t fault people on his team who care about him for tearing up or crying because they thought a friend was dying in front of them.

Considering he was loaded into an ambulance and taken away without them knowing if he would survive, I think canceling the game was the right call. That goes far beyond a concussion, leg break, or even being paralyzed. It is just a game, and I love that the players and coaches said screw that and walked off.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
He had a hit in the right spot to make go into cardiac arrest.
If I am not mistaken hockey players have been hit in the chest with pucks with the same results before the vax was around.

Looked to me like it was Commotio Cordis.

This happened to Chris Pronger of the St. Louis Blues when he took a slap shot to the heart. It throws your heart rhythm off. The trainers got to him immediately and got his restarted and he was fine shortly after.

The fact they couldn’t do the same for this guy sounds like worse news.

It’s apparently more common in baseball because of the lack of protection. It’s pretty rare in football because of the shoulder pads offering protection. This guy was in a speed position so they tend to use the lightest protection possible or even modify existing equipment to be the lightest possible.

For a bunch of guys who have sworn off the NFL you sure are worked up about the game. I could care less if the game was canceled or ever replayed for that matter. The NFL just doesn’t even register with me anymore.

They are not gladiators.
They are not warriors.

They are grown ass men playing a game.

I wouldn't want any of those cowards in a foxhole or in a battle with me.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
As for the crying, well it is what is it is whatever there reasons for it.

You're saying something without saying anything at all.

Either you think this kind of emotional display from grown men out in public is acceptable in an instance such as this, or you do not. If you think it's acceptable, don't qualify your response with meaningless internet-age quips such as "it is what it is."

Did you not read the rest of my sentences?? I pointed out it is 100% normal for anyone to cry when they believe they are witnessing someone dying or presented with the idea that someone they care about is dead or likely dead.

Similar to you, the only time I have seen my father cry was at his mother’s funeral and I was 10?
How many times were you present when your father was in the midst of a loved one likely passing away?
We’re not talking about winning or loosing a ball game here (which we have seen male athletes cry over as long as I can remember).
We are dealing with folks right there in the midst of truly believing their loved one is dead.

Many folks here are talking like this is minor as flashlightboy pointed out. We are far from it.

John 11:35 Jesus wept.

Jesus found out 4 days after that Lazarus had died and he cried publicly all while knowing he would raise him from the dead.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
I was fine with the dudes tearing up or even openly crying. They get caught up in the emotion of the game, the events transpiring, and likely see themselves lying out there on the field getting resuscitated on national television.

I was not fine with canceling the game and fully believe that the NFL told the coaches, “you’ve got 5 minutes”; even though both the NFL and Player’s association now deny that deadline took place.

There were millions and millions of dollars in play last night; as well as playoff and standing positions at play. To me this sets a precedent for canceling future games for … a leg break? A bad concussion?

No one will ever convince me that the NFL did not direct the teams that “the show must go on”, and the League folded when the coaches and players pushed back.

I promise you it was the players and coaches decision not to play.

As for the game, the money, who cares? I am a Bengals Season ticket holder so I am pretty well invested directly in this situation and not bothered in the slightest with the decision given the circumstances.

No one anywhere thinks this is anything like a concussion or a leg break.

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
They are not gladiators.
They are not warriors.

They are grown ass men playing a game.

I wouldn't want any of those cowards in a foxhole or in a battle with me.

They were playing a ball game not in the midst of war.
Like everything there is a time and a place.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Did you not read the rest of my sentences??

I read your post entirely, yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
No one will ever convince me that the NFL did not direct the teams that “the show must go on”, and the League folded when the coaches and players pushed back.

I agree. I fully believe the 5 minute story. When both teams returned to their locker rooms, the NFL had no power to bring them back out so they caved.

quote:

Jesus found out 4 days after that Lazarus had died and he cried publicly all while knowing he would raise him from the dead.

Instead of crying, Jesus should have said, “Hold my beer.”

I watched it in real time, and my first thought was "that man is dead". If he was a colleague, friend, team-mate of mine, I would have felt absolute anguish.

I don't know if I would have teared up or not, but I can tell you, it's just a game, and I would have been done playing football for the evening.

It's not combat, it's not firefighting, it's not being an EMT on duty, or a caregiver in a trauma center or ER ward, where you are conditioned to keep going under life and death circumstances, and where others rely on you to keep going.

It's not mining, walking high iron, shipbuilding, drilling oil, making steel, or operating on the high seas, or any other high risk activity where industrial or environmental death is waiting for you by accident or slip-up, and where the greater machine can't be stopped and needs to keep operating.

It's a football game, and but for this incident would otherwise be largely forgotten by the start of next season.

None of these players was even alive when Darrel Stingley was paralyzed from the neck down. I watched that game, too, as a kid. It has stuck with me, and although I love watching the game, I dread seeing that ever again, and applaud the equipment and rule changes that have been put in place to mitigate that risk.

None of these players have ever seen anything close to this. It's unlikely that any have suffered the immediate loss of someone of their age in their orbit, much less being there to witness it.

I don't blame those who wept. The NFL made the right call to postpone the game. From what I saw of the players on the sidelines, very few were in any mental state to focus on their own safety if the game resumed.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
The whole thing is absurd. I don’t understand why this is as big a deal as it is. I’m sitting next to a guy who is watching ESPN and it’s all they are talking about every time I look over. I’ve seen that churches are holding prayer vigils. One of the talking heads started crying. The Eagles, who aren’t even involved, are suspending press conferences until Thursday “out of respect”

ESPN just brought up 9/11 and how the league responded to that. 9/11.

They might as well cancel the whole season. Cancel them all at this point. You know, out of respect.

I missed this post earlier. It makes me smile, because the crazies are on full display and the sane among us can see it clearly.

Postponing the game is fine. But I definitely think the reaction is absolutely crazy.

The guy isn’t dead. It looked bad and he is in critical condition and it’s possible he still may die, but the players didn’t actually watch a guy die. Now they can’t play for a week?

And now press events are getting cancelled from other teams, churches are holding prayer vigils, anchors are crying on live TV or aren’t showing up for work at all. For the first 12 hours anyone who dared to even wonder about how the game would be made up was attacked online for being heartless.

It’s fake. I’m sure the players and coaches and his family had real emotions but now it’s just posturing to see who can show that they are more sad than the other guy. Everyone has to show how this hits home. They all knew a guy whose second cousin had a friend that had a heart attack or they visited Buffalo once in the 90’s so you know it’s personal for them. This many people cannot be this shocked and unable to function after that. How many time have professional sports players lost immediate family members and still been able to play, sometimes even the same day? These guys are more torn up over a teammate getting hurt than their brother or mom dying?

Bullshit. Honestly I’ll bet most of these players would be okay playing today but not a single one will say it because they will be attacked from all sides if they do. The public overreaction to this has painted everyone in a corner. Nobody is going to want to be the first to suggest maybe resuming this game. If they were truly that upset and truly believed their bond was more than just a game, one of the teams would simply forfeit.

Until that happens I don’t believe it.

When was the last time a NFL player died on the field? Has that ever happened before? CPR and using a defibrillator means death. The player has died, or is in the process of dying, and the gravity of the situation is readily apparent to anyone watching. Having been a first responder, I have been told that once it gets to the point that a person is getting CPR then chance of survival is tiny. We haven’t received many updates on the players condition, but it’s very probable that he suffered severe brain damage from lack of oxygen, and if he even survives, will have a drastically different lifestyle. He will never again play a single NFL game, ever again.

As to crying men, we are being a little hard on them, which is unfair in my view.

If these were Delta force operators in a televised program and one of the team members suddenly was injured to the point that he was receiving CPR and a defibrillator, I would guarantee you would see crying soldiers.

If these were police SWAT team members in a televised program, and one of them was injured to the point that he was receiving CPR, and a defibrillation, I would guarantee that you would see crying police officers.

I usually despise the national felon league but this time , I’m in absolute support how this was handled. The game absolutely should have been delayed for another time.

This was not a regular injury where the player is conscious , talking, and waves to the crowd as they leave the field. This was the on field death of a player. An unprecedented, never before seen event.