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Irksome Whirling Dervish |
I have been paying very good attention but now that the judge has given the jury instructions, that's not something we've heard from the trial observers, until they were read today. Kind of odd that the jury instructions weren't given to them to take. I guess the judge is asking them to do it from memory and then send him questions as necessary. Just bizarre. I wonder if the jury votes 4-4-4 in the underlying federal crimes has to say as individuals, "I found him guilty of federal crime #1 but not guilty of #2 and 3." According to this judge, so long as the total ends of with 12 guilty findings in a mix and match, that's good enough for a unanimous determination. In theory, you could have one person finding him guilty of the #1 crime and that's all it takes so long as there are 11 guilty findings on the other two. No single jury in any court can make the sole decision of guilt without the other jurors also having their say in the conviction. This judge is truly out of control and doing some things that will be reversed on appeal. | |||
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Diablo Blanco |
Also, directly contradicts the recent USSC ruling of Ramos vs Louisiana regarding state trials and unanimous juries. Regardless of the outcome, Joe Biden and his lawfare has forever tarnished the United States. I didn’t think it could sink lower than the 2020 election, yet here we are!!! History will not look kindly on this moment. _________________________ "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last” - Winston Churchil | |||
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| Partial dichotomy |
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfr...dkt_nbr=0105023yancp Report: One Juror Seems to Agree With Defense A hung jury in former President Donald Trump's New York criminal trial appears to be a real possibility. Only one skeptical juror is needed to create a hung jury that would result in a mistrial. Trump's legal team has focused on one juror who may prevent a guilty verdict, The Bulwark's Marc Caputo reported. "There are eight people on that jury who definitely hate Trump. If there's one person who doesn't, it's [this] juror," one court attendee told Caputo. Caputo further described the juror. "As the trial has progressed since April 15, these sources relate, this juror has appeared to nod along in seeming accordance with the defense at times," Caputo wrote. "On other occasions, the juror has seemingly reacted favorably to and made eye contact with Trump's congressional surrogates who began joining him in court in recent weeks." The reporter added that the juror "lit up" when Sen. J.D. Vance, R-Ohio, and some of Trump's other high-profile supporters appeared at the courthouse. The former president's allies are not the only people who have focused on the juror. "There's one juror that people are worried about and I share the worry," Harry Litman, a Democrat former Justice Department official, wrote Tuesday on X. "Can't identify her or him per judge's orders but seems less engaged and slightly irritable." Still, trying to predict how jury's will vote is tricky. "You just never know what people are thinking or what they're gonna do," one Trump insider said, The Bulwark reported. "Yeah, the [juror] looks friendly. But maybe [the juror is] just doing that to [expletive] with us before they vote to convict." Jury deliberations are expected to begin Wednesday after the panel receives instructions from the judge on the law governing the case and what they can take into account in evaluating the former president's guilt or innocence. Trump faces 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, charges which are punishable by up to four years in prison. He has denied all wrongdoing and pleaded not guilty. The Associated Press contributed to this story. SIGforum: For all your needs! Imagine our influence if every gun owner in America was an NRA member! Click the box>>>  | |||
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Unflappable Enginerd |
I'm not sure which observers you've heard from, obviously it was confirmed today, but here was a LOT of talk last week on exactly this, when the prosecution and defense attorneys got together on it last Thursday or Friday. Also, the judge has been pretty obvious in his leanings toward testimony and evidentiary rulings. He disallowed almost all of the Brad Smith(former head of the FEC) FEC testimony, essentially preventing him from giving his opinion as to whether Trumps payments would have been illegal had the money come from campaign funds instead of personal funds. Smith would have been able to tell the jury it would have been a campaign finance law violation had the campaign payed for it instead. He and many have openly stated that outside the trial. That testimony was NOT allowed. Instead, the defense was stuck asking him for "definitions", which I'm more than confident put the jurors to sleep... He also restricted and nullified a lot of Robert Costello's (Cohen's former attorney) testimony. __________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
In New York, eight people on that jury who definitely hate Trump should not be a surprise. Still, this is good news. It only takes one. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Irksome Whirling Dervish |
There are plenty of grounds for a meritorious appeal if he's convicted. | |||
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Member |
I have been empaneled on exactly one jury, and it was a criminal trial. The case seemed as straight forward, open and shut as I could imagine any real case being. During selection, I formed my opinions of my fellow jurors, predicting which ones would be tough, which ones would be squishy, etc. Good thing I am not paid for reading jurors, three people I expected to be lenient were the most hard core. Some I thought would be easily persuaded dug their heels in. There were 3 charges, we convicted on the two that might have held some element of "reasonable doubt," and acquitted on the charge that was clear as night and day. Even the judge was bewildered by our result. This space intentionally left blank. | |||
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| Unflappable Enginerd |
Uh huh, great?  Wait for all the Dems and the press, mostly the same thing, to start using the word "convicted" in damn every sentence. Overturned on appeal, marvy... Still have my fingers crossed for a hung jury, but there's no denying the "trial" is a rigged shit-show kangaroo court. Edit: But wait, it gets even better, IANAL but I've never heard of this before. https://x.com/AndrewHGiuliani/.../1795863625837506984 I'm pretty sure that all but eliminated the chance a single juror can trigger a hung jury. __________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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Baroque Bloke |
Since a Not Guilty verdict is very unlikely from this judge-whipped jury, a conviction is better for us. A non-decision could prolong the fabricated case for an indeterminate period. Serious about crackers | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
No, fuck that. A guilty verdict isn't a death knell like the democrats think, but a hung jury is far better. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Whoa, wait a minute. What the hell is this? Haha, this is a freaking joke. If they convict him with this Frankenstein horseshit, no one will give a shit. This is such a complete bastardarzation of the judicial process that even Bobby D (Robert Deniro) would probably do a double take. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
I agree. It’s so bad that SCOTUS might be provoked to an extraordinary intervention. Serious about crackers | |||
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| Irksome Whirling Dervish |
I'm sure the SCOTUS is following this closely, as are NY appellate judges. If he's acquitted then it's moot, of course. But a judge telling the jury that he's breaking them into three different camps and each one is to work on a different federal crime? Jurors 5-12 have no say on the charges that jurors 1-4 are deliberating? That's beyond whacked. On the other hand, if, say, jurors 1-4 and jurors 5-8 find him not guilty but jurors 9-12 do on their crime, does that mean he's guilty of that crime when 2/3 of the jurors weren't part of the deliberation? 4 out of 4 is unanimous? I truly hope there's more to this separate camp story. This is just bizarre as fuck. | |||
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Bad dog! |
Corruption so destructive as we have been watching usually works in the dark. But here everyone sees its ugly face, even those on the left. So their support of deception, lying, injustice-- their support of this travesty that undermines our nation-- is not a mistake. Instead, they are deliberately choosing what they know is wrong. And that is evil. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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| Member |
https://twitter.com/ryantyre/s.../1795855838810177625 https://twitter.com/AGAndrewBa.../1795840914486948097 _________________________ | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
President Trump Delivers Remarks as Jury Deliberates in New York City, “Weaponized Deal to Manipulate Law” President Trump delivers remarks after Judge Juan Merchan delivered some of the most ridiculous instructions in the history of jury instructions. Judge Juan Merchan told jurors they do not have to agree unanimously on each of the 3 counts charged. The jury can have 4 members agree to guilt on each of the three counts and the judge will accept that as 12 decisions for guilt overall. There’s no way these types of instructions will pass appellate court review; but that’s not the purpose of the Lawfare that Judge Merchan is participating in. WATCH: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/ "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Fool for the City |
My fear is that this judge is under orders to do whatever necessary to get Trump locked up, if even for just a few hours. DJT will then be "epsteined." _____________________________ "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington. | |||
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| Member |
I doubt the Secret Service will allow Trump to be "Epstiened." This space intentionally left blank. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
No. Uh uh. NO DO NOT post idiotic shit like this in this forum. You have been warned. I had better not have to address this again, and that goes for everyone here. Do not post this stupid shit in this forum. | |||
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Make America Great Again |
IF he's convicted, that will be all is needed to prevent him from becoming our next president! He will be a convicted felon until well after the November election, and any appeals won after that, which is very likely, will simply be too late! These assholes know exactly what they're doing! The only hope at this point is acquittal, or a mistrial... and with the mistrial it's likely a second trial will be scheduled before election day to tie him up! My hate for Dims grows stronger every single day!!! ____________________________ Bill R. North Alabama _____________________________ I just can't quit grinnin' from all of this winnin'! | |||
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