I tend to think the simpler explanation is most likely: the judge is a Democrat TDS maniac. He's certainly acting like it, and Democrats generally have no guiding moral principles except whatever they feel at the time. I don't think our political adversaries are playing 4D chess, I think they are emotional & petty hypocrites and their behavior reflects as much.

I seldom pray, but today I prayed that the jury will reach the only logical verdict, that Donald J Trump is not guilty on all charges.
In my 58 years of life, only one other president has been as great as Donald J Trump, that being Ronald Reagan.

Welcome, Only Sig and Glock!

https://x.com/_johnnymaga/stat...ury-deliberations%2F

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The question, then, is do they wish to be part of this historic travesty, or do they want to retain their integrity.

This is the crux of the whole trial, the outcome now lies in the hands of 12 citizens. They aren't politicians, media assholes, or movers and shakers that all have a direct political stake in a verdict of guilty, these are 12 ordinary citizens from all walks of life. This whole trial is an obvious 100% sham, the corruption all out in the open, no doubt. Do the jurors want to be partners in pulling off one of the most corrupt actions in American political history? If Alan Dershowitz can be bewildered by what he witnessed, then others can as well. In my heart, I believe most people are not evil like the political elite I mentioned above. I'm sure yesterday in the jury room, it was contentious, arguments flying back and forth, votes taken. And it continues today. I have to have faith that in the face of absolute corruption, that 12 ordinary citizens will come up with the right decision.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The question, then, is do they wish to be part of this historic travesty, or do they want to retain their integrity.

This is the crux of the whole trial, the outcome now lies in the hands of 12 citizens. They aren't politicians, media assholes, or movers and shakers that all have a direct political stake in a verdict of guilty, these are 12 ordinary citizens from all walks of life. This whole trial is an obvious 100% sham, ...

In the criminal trial jury I served on mentioned a few pages back, I learned something. The trial was in Oakland, CA, arguably as liberal or more so than NYC. Oakland has those of privilege living in the hills, and the ordinary folks down on the flats. On my jury, the folks from the flats were very down to earth, knew bullshit at the faintest whiff, and had no tolerance for it. While there are plenty on the flats one wouldn't want on a jury, they had rap sheets so long they never entered the jury box for questioning. The ones that made it on the jury were tired of what they saw happening in the part of the community they lived in.

I bring all this up for this reason: we saw the Trump rally in the Bronx and there is apparently a lot of ordinary NYC residents tired of the bullshit the power structure has been shoving down their throats. If a few of those people made it on to the jury, a guilty verdict is not guaranteed. If the NYC justice system can railroad a rich white man with power and political connections, just imagine what he does to the lower echelon of society.

Merchan is a corrupt judge on steroids. He isn't playing both sides. He does not expect to pay any penalty whatsoever for his unlawful actions. His daughter is getting rich off this.

I've never heard of intervention into an ongoing trial based only on rulings of the trial judge. Everything is on the record and the recourse is appeal. I suppose if the judge lost it and became crazy, that might be an exception, and then it goes to what each state allows as to how to handle it. Courts usually have a chief judge or ombudsman to handle things like that and it's rare.

Another NY quirk I learned yesterday is that the judge has the power to remove a juror even after deliberations have started. Usually, the jurors are seated and at the end of the trial the alternates are removed by lot and discharged. The remaining twelve jurors are charged and take it from there.

In this case, 14 were seated, two removed, but the judge did not discharge those two in case one of the 12 needs to be removed. This can basically take the case away from the jury system of justice. Then on X last night I saw Dershowitz say the exact same thing, expressing a fear that the biased judge could sniff out a hold out to convict, then make a record, and remove him. Dershowitz said he's seen it happen.

On a positive note, was just listening on Fox of the appearance of the jurors when the judge was re-reading requested jury instructions. It sounds like there may be several jurors who aren't on board with a conviction. If that is the case, then the prosecution failed in it's burden and the verdict should be not guilty. However for that to happen, scorned TDS jurors would have to eat crow, and how likely is that to happen? We know what they're like, unhinged crazies.

you have more faith in a broken and dysfunctional legal system than I do

this is NYC, for all the man has done for the city they hate him - I mean they truly hate him, and the jury was selected to ensure they all hate him

whats the penalty for a kangaroo court? whats the penalty for subverting the constitution? whats the penalty for fabricating evidence? whats the penalty for railroading?

apparently none - at least in NYC, and the State hasn't done zip either

that makes the ALL complicit in this travesty and they only way we will ever stop this behavior is to have our own Nuremberg style trial when this is said and done. Do to them what they've done to us, but with finality. Trail, sentence. No waiting. No appeals. From the State AG to the local prosecutors and judges.

We want our legal system back and as long as they're infected with these leeches, we never will. We need a first magnitude purge.

I have no doubt that Trump will win - but at what cost to the country? These people aren't Americans. We shouldn't treat them or give them the benefits of being such.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
you have more faith in a broken and dysfunctional legal system than I do

i don't know how you concluded that

Jonathan Turley Deconstructs the Specifics of the Lawfare Witch Hunt in New York City

Throughout the trial the prosecution refused to outline the underlying crime that President Trump was guilty of violating.

Without telling the defendant what crime they committed, the defense did not know what point of specific law to refute. Then, in the closing arguments by the prosecution, the Manhattan District Attorney finally stated the crime that frames their case against President Trump. A federal campaign violation.

This context of surprise attack LAWFARE is egregious in the extreme because throughout the trial the court refused to permit testimony from expert defense witnesses, including testimony from the Federal Election Commission, that federal campaign violations never took place.

The court previously said the defendant is not being charged with federal campaign violations because this is a state case; ergo no FEC testimony is valid. Then in the closing arguments, the state says the underlying case which frames the state prosecution are FEC violations of law.

Jonathan Turley writes an op-ed in The Hill sharing the extreme nature of the judicial breach that has taken place. This is unmitigated Lawfare in the extreme and the American people can see it clearly.
https://thehill.com/opinion/cr...the-case-in-the-bag/

(Via The Hill) – […] going into the deliberations, the court allowed the jury to be told repeatedly that there were federal campaign violations committed by Trump. That is not true. Putting aside that the federal government found no basis to impose a civil fine, let alone bring a criminal charge, the court barred a legal expert who could have shown that no such violation occurred. The jury does not know that. Instead, the judge allowed them to be repeatedly told a false fact that could make it difficult for anyone to acquit.

However, the instructions then went in for the kill and turned the jury deliberations into a canned hunt.

Consider just a few highlights from the curious aspects of these deliberations.

First, the judge has ruled that the jury does not have to agree on what actually occurred in the case. Merchan ruled that the government had vaguely referenced three possible crimes that constitute the “unlawful means” used to influence the election: a federal election violation, the falsification of business records, and a tax violation. The jurors were told that they could split on what occurred, with four jurors accepting each of the three possible crimes in a 4-4-4 split. The court would still consider that a unanimous verdict so long as they agree that it was in furtherance of some crime. (READ MORE)

The judge refused to give the jury a written copy of the 55-pages of juror instructions because the corrupt judge wants the jury to keep coming back to him for guidance. The judge wants to coach the jury to their guilty conclusion. [SEE INSTRUCTIONS HERE]

Additionally, the judge is doing everything possible to make jury deliberations extend as long as possible in order to create the impression of guilt which assists the lawfare narrative. Everything happening in this courtroom is corrupt and a bastardized abuse of the courts, ie Lawfare.

https://x.com/BigFish3000/stat...-in-new-york-city%2F



https://theconservativetreehou...rk-city/#more-260893

This may seem excessive, but what has been going on in NYC is extremely similar if not almost identical.

The fundamental legal principle became Nazi "common sense". "Whatever is good for Germany is legal".

And they say Trump is a threat to democracy. Assholes!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 6guns,

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

whats the penalty for a kangaroo court? whats the penalty for subverting the constitution? whats the penalty for fabricating evidence? whats the penalty for railroading?

apparently none - at least in NYC, and the State hasn't done zip either

that makes the ALL complicit in this travesty and the only way we will ever stop this behavior is to have our own Nuremberg style trial when this is said and done. Do to them what they've done to us, but with finality. Trail, sentence. No waiting. No appeals. From the State AG to the local prosecutors and judges.

... We need a first magnitude purge.

I am optimistic that somehow the citizenry will correct what has happened across the last 5 years, including all of the lawfare against DJT. I don't think it will be a Nuremberg style trial, though. (We do need Nuremberg for the Covid miscreants). With luck it will be an awakening that leads to better elected representatives. At this moment I also believe DJT will be #47 and will clean the administrative house in DC with good effect.

Pendulums swing, and this one is overdue to come back. With any luck it will be mostly civil. Severe punishment is called for. Deterrence to protect us in the future is a bonus of bringing justice to those who have flouted the Constitution.

quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:
This may seem excessive, but what has been going on in NYC is extremely similar if not almost identical.

The fundamental legal principle became Nazi "common sense". "Whatever is good for Germany is legal".

Nope, not "excessive" at all.

In view of how outrageous the judge’s rulings and actions in this case have been it seems to me that he doesn’t care about what may happen later on appeal. If a guilty verdict is reached, that’s all the Left will harp on until the election, and beyond if Trump is elected. Even if the verdict is more quickly overturned by an appropriate court than seems to be usual in such situations, that can be ignored whenever the case is discussed. And if it is overturned, that can be dismissed as a “technicality”: “He really was guilty,” will be the claim, and I suspect the judge in the case knows that, and will satisfy what was his intention from the beginning.

As for a hung jury, my understanding is that it simply means the case could be tried all over again. That wouldn’t be as good for the evil Left as a guilty verdict, but would keep the matter alive and delay any appeals.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
In view of how outrageous the judge’s rulings and actions in this case have been it seems to me that he doesn’t care about what may happen later on appeal. If a guilty verdict is reached, that’s all the Left will harp on until the election, and beyond if Trump is elected. Even if the verdict is more quickly overturned by an appropriate court than seems to be usual in such situations, that can be ignored whenever the case is discussed. And if it is overturned, that can be dismissed as a “technicality”: “He really was guilty,” will be the claim, and I suspect the judge in the case knows that, and will satisfy what was his intention from the beginning.

I also don’t understand why a hung jury is something to be hoped for. As I understand it, that simply means the case could be tried all over again. That wouldn’t be as good for the evil Left as a guilty verdict, but would keep the matter alive and delay any appeals.

I can easily picture the hags on The View, especially the red headed one, saying, "A jury of his peers found him guilty. Looking at all the evidence, he committed the crimes and is a convicted felon. Trump is the only president ever convicted of 34 felonies and an overturned decision on appeal doesn't change their deliberations, viewing all the evidence and speaking with a unified voice that Alvin Bragg was right to file the case. I'm looking forward to what Fani Willis does in Georgia."

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
I can easily picture the hags on The View, especially the red headed one, saying...

Just take it easy. We don't need any of that.

And still, no written instructions or previous testimony is given to jurors, only verbal instructions in the courtroom. Insane.
https://x.com/PaulIngrassia/st.../1796190070854066378

https://x.com/JonathanTurley/s.../1796249931331641801

Well, here we go.

Since a verdict was actually reached, I think that's bad news.

Jurors reach verdict in Manhattan hush money case against Donald Trump

A Manhattan jury has reached a verdict in the historic criminal hush money case against Donald Trump and are expected to read out the decision shortly.

https://nypost.com/2024/05/30/...yp&utm_medium=social

Guilty on 34 counts. I am now officially and forevermore embarrassed by my country (if I wasn’t already.)