quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
There might be a spike in cases but what will be more important is if there is a spike in mortality? If not then as the number of cases increase but the mortality rate stays the same it decreases this will end up being just another flu bug

But I’m curious to know how many people died from influenza and pneumonia this year.

they've probably all been classified as crud-19 deaths due to the $$ incentive.

I don’t care either way on the “case” definition, that wasn’t the lack of precision I was referring to. The specific bone I was picking was,

quote:

Testing positive means virtually nothing if the person never develops symptoms, and only slightly more than nothing if they develop mild symptoms and recover without any medical assistance.

and my point was that it DOES mean something. Actually, it means something positive, in contrast to what the liars, Lefties, and media (apologies for being doubly redundant) would have us believe.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Forgive me, but 'F' them.

On this, we agree completely.

I'll ask this question to the Forum scientists and docs: since this is an bio-engineered virus - is it possible for a marker in this virus to attach itself without actually triggering an immune response?

Here's another issue, if you don't or are not exhibiting any of the symptons of COVID-19, you cannot get tested, this is important, since all we have are people getting tested that a) have symptoms or B) lie to get tested....

The rest of us who operate on a honest basis and don't want to expose ourselves to a room full of potentially sick COVID patients, or, since we are not feeling the effects, simply don't get tested.

There's no possible counting of all cases, potential risks, immune, post covid cases, none.

So the numbers we see are meaningless in the overall scope, since more tests are available, and testing quantity is increasing daily, AND most importantly, only those who have symptoms may be tested, the result of more cases is inevitable.

Things that are not answered as well about the positives.

A) have they been following social distancing.
B) did they attend a protest in the past 14 days
c) are they attending public functions without distancing, and/or a mask
d) do they wear masks.
e) how many had exposure to family members to obtain COVID, ie you live with an emergency room nurse, doctor, attendant, still practiced social masking and yet are symptomatic.

At least I have not found these answers to be easily available.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
I'll ask this question to the Forum scientists and docs: since this is an bio-engineered virus -

How's that again?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
I'll ask this question to the Forum scientists and docs: since this is an bio-engineered virus -

How's that again?

That right - I forgot. Some chinese guy ate a bat.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Here's another issue, if you don't or are not exhibiting any of the symptons of COVID-19, you cannot get tested, this is important, since all we have are people getting tested that a) have symptoms or B) lie to get tested....

The rest of us who operate on a honest basis and don't want to expose ourselves to a room full of potentially sick COVID patients, or, since we are not feeling the effects, simply don't get tested.

There's no possible counting of all cases, potential risks, immune, post covid cases, none.

So the numbers we see are meaningless in the overall scope, since more tests are available, and testing quantity is increasing daily, AND most importantly, only those who have symptoms may be tested, the result of more cases is inevitable.

Things that are not answered as well about the positives.

A) have they been following social distancing.
B) did they attend a protest in the past 14 days
c) are they attending public functions without distancing, and/or a mask
d) do they wear masks.
e) how many had exposure to family members to obtain COVID, ie you live with an emergency room nurse, doctor, attendant, still practiced social masking and yet are symptomatic.

At least I have not found these answers to be easily available.

Yet another little tidbit many people overlook is that testing is a snapshot in time. It is absolutely possible someone could be tested today, prove negative, and end up being exposed to the virus and test positive two or three days later. And what if you do test positive for the underlying virus? You could have got it and recovered months ago at this point. Is the fact that person tested positive at this point of any real value? Of course not.

The testing numbers these people are shoveling at us are virtually useless without having a lot more data available to support them, and/or to build conclusions on. Again, look to the hospitalization rates/capacities, and the death rate/trend for the only 'real meaningful' data points we have to work with at this point. Unfortunately (for the media and politicians) those two pieces of data aren't doing much to support their "the sky is falling", decisions and warnings.

I think most reasonable people believe the virus came out of a chinese lab. I'm not sure many believe that it was bio-engineered though.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I think most reasonable people believe the virus came out of a chinese lab. I'm not sure many believe that it was bio-engineered though.

At this point, given the openness of the Chinese government , we have little to no information available as to how it came into being, short of it existing at that bio-research facility. As such, any speculations are pie in the sky guesses.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Here's another issue, if you don't or are not exhibiting any of the symptons of COVID-19, you cannot get tested, this is important, since all we have are people getting tested that a) have symptoms or B) lie to get tested....

This is not universally true. This may be the case in some areas, but it is far from universal.

In my home county, that was initially the case, but I do not believe it is any longer, with respect to the brain swab, current virus test. For some time, Quest labs has had antibody test that anyone could get. My understanding was that one signed up online, paid, then went to a nearby lab for the blood draw for the test. You didn’t to be sick, to have been sick, or to have doctors orders. You just needed to have $129 for the test. I’d likely have done it just to see if whatever nasty crud Mrs slosig and I had in January/February was the ‘VID or not, but the 15% false positive rate and 40 minute drive each way to their nearest lab put me off.

Just as well, as I find myself in another nearby county (my original home county) for a couple weeks. They have a program where they are providing free antibody testing in various sites around the county for a couple weeks hoping to test 10,000 or so. Oh, and they run a second, different test on any positive samples to rule out any false positives. No ID needed, no cost, no reservation. First come first serve, 10am to 3pm. Swung by the test site in the town I grew up in a little after 10 yesterday and the line was around the block. Did a couple errands / projects, went by around noon and it was better. Did one more thing, went by around one, probably waited a half hour to forty minutes, and got tested. Should have results in two to three days.

One of the questions was “Have you been diagnosed with COVID-19?”, but it was not a requirement. Another was do you work in “list of essential jobs”?

Sure, as originally rolled out, the nasal swab current virus testing was almost guaranteed to have a higher positive rate than the population due to selective use of the limited tests.

Sure, beyond that, any information generated via antibody or nasal swab testing will be twisted and misrepresented to further the “Dim Panic”. Gather whatever information you can, view it skeptically, and draw your own conclusions.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Here's another issue, if you don't or are not exhibiting any of the symptoms of COVID-19, you cannot get tested, this is important, since all we have are people getting tested that a) have symptoms or B) lie to get tested....

This is not universally true. This may be the case in some areas, but it is far from universal.

And thus exacerbating the problem of current reporting is lack of consistent testing rules vis a vis qualification.

It's the way it's done here, wife wanted to be tested, she'd not essential per the rules
and her company wanted to open the office up, she was trying to be tested last week, was told no
since she had no symptoms, testing was for people with symptoms.

My neighbor wanted to know, so he told him he had the symptoms, got right in and tested...

I'm just going to presume that nationwide there are people not going because they don't want
anyone to know they have it, as it might cause their spouse to lose pay, or them to lose pay
or a job, whatever reasons they may have be it right or wrong, people do this stuff..

Anyway it's just another little twist in the social experiment of control by virus JMO...

As I was heading into the grocery store yesterday I saw 2 or 3 masks lying in the parking lot. These were not the el cheapo's but quality masks. I think people are just getting tired of wearing them here and are just saying "Screw it.They aren't enforcing the rule so I'm not wearing one!"

We put a man on the moon but I cannot go to Europe. Our response to COVID is an embarrassment.

quote:

Originally posted by midwest guy:
We put a man on the moon but I cannot go to Europe. Our response to COVID is an embarrassment.

Would you please explain?

Officials in New York are threatening fines and said subpoenas are being issued to a group of partygoers to compel them to speak with health officials about a gathering that could be responsible for a cluster of coronavirus infections.

The party occurred in mid-June, according to media reports, in Clarkstown, N.Y., just north of New York City, where as many as 100 people were exposed to the outbreak.

The host held the party despite exhibiting symptoms of COVID-19, county Health Commissioner Patricia Ruppert said at a Wednesday news conference. At least eight people have been infected and have refused to talk with county investigators.

“My staff has been told that a person does not wish to or have to speak to my disease investigators,” she said. “They hang up. They deny being at the party, even though we have found their names from another party attending or a parent provides us with the information. Many do not answer their cell phones and do not call back.”

“This must stop,” Ruppert added. “Unfortunately, I am now forced by these circumstances to send subpoenas to the individuals who are required to cooperate with us. Failure to comply will be costly — $2,000 per day.”

Rockland County Executive Ed Day said it's "a matter of information" and that "no one is in trouble." He also warned the county is taking the issue seriously.

“I don’t care who you are, who you know, how much money you make, where you live, or anything along those lines,” he said. “If you get in the way of a health department investigation, I will take and we will take every step necessary to ensure that we respond appropriately, and we’re taking a serious response.”

He added that he will not have the "health of our county compromised because of ignorance, stupidity, obstinance, or anything else for that matter."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ny-...k-to-contact-tracers

quote:

Originally posted by olfuzzy:
Officials in New York are threatening fines and said subpoenas are being issued to a group of partygoers to compel them to speak with health officials about a gathering that could be responsible for a cluster of coronavirus infections.

"compel them to speak"

This is why I say that New York State is no longer part of the United States. These fools behave as if they've never even heard of the Constitution.

There's this obscure part of that outdated old piece of parchment known as the FIFTH AMENDMENT.



.

You funny man. You go to gulag last.

Well.... St. Louis County is joining the crazy:

Face masks to be required in St. Louis and St. Louis County

The order, which goes into effect at 7 a.m. Friday, applies to everybody over the age of 9, although some exceptions will be allowed.




ST. LOUIS — Residents of St. Louis and St. Louis County will be required to wear face coverings in public beginning at 7 a.m. Friday.

The city and county said Wednesday they are issuing public health orders that will require all individuals over the age of 9 to wear a face mask when inside businesses and other public accommodations, and outside when social distancing is not possible.

The new orders — the county’s was issued Wednesday afternoon, the city’s was still with the city counselor’s office — provide limited exceptions for “certain circumstances and health conditions.” People who have trouble breathing, are hearing-impaired, exercising or playing sports are among those not subject to the requirement, according to the county order.

Failure to comply could result in health officials asking the courts to step in and order businesses to enforce the mask requirement among customers.

“I think a lot of the enforcement will be done by the public, frankly. We don’t have the ‘mask police’ there,” Mayor Lyda Krewson said during an online press conference Wednesday.

“I think that peer pressure will come to bear on this.”

The city and county orders come amid signs of an uptick of cases of COVID-19 in Missouri, and two days after Jackson County required people to wear face masks in public amid the coronavirus pandemic, following similar orders from others in the Kansas City metro area. Kansas City’s face mask requirement went into effect on Monday; Jackson County’s on Wednesday.

https://www.stltoday.com/lifes...ource=home-top-story


I wonder if “mandatory” means that wearing face mask will be enforced as much as the laws against looting, arson, assault, destroying monuments, vandalism, blocking traffic and murder are enforced? And if so it means that no one will show up to enforce wearing face mask.

For the record... I have trouble breathing with a mask and will not comply.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I think most reasonable people believe the virus came out of a chinese lab. I'm not sure many believe that it was bio-engineered though.

There was an article posted several hundred pages ago that noted the S protein (that red triangle in the images spread about) is not naturally occurring. Given that is the protein that binds to human cells it's highly suspect as engineered.

quote:

“I think a lot of the enforcement will be done by the public, frankly. We don’t have the ‘mask police’ there,” Mayor Lyda Krewson said during an online press conference Wednesday.

“I think that peer pressure will come to bear on this.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really? I guess there are a lot of Karens in Saint Louis.