quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
If you look back at Skins' post history in this thread, that post looks like dark sarcasm aimed at the "put everything back to normal right now" idea.

Something in the vein of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal," which (not seriously) suggested we could fix a lot of the world's problems if we just started eating babies.

That would be the point of the post. The idea of letting people go about their business and letting the chips fall where they may is repugnant to me. I am amazed at the people posting in here it's just the flu, open the economy back up.

It's ludicrous. This is a threat we have not faced ever in my lifetime or my parents. Some of the people posting in this thread would sacrifice their parents, friends, and co-workers for their damn 401k. I have no answer to what the right mix of risk to life or the economy, is but I know it's not open everything up and let everything sort themselves out.

It's not the flu. I don't care if 50,000 people die every year from the flu, or if those dying might only have two years or ten years to live. We need to do the right thing here, does it hurt? Sure as hell it does, but I have a lot of friends and family in the at risk catagory and I prefer not to lose them.

Some people are so paniked about people's concern for a real threat. It's not unreasonable to be afraid of the deaths this is causing or the overwhelming of out medical systems.

Beat your chest all you want people. This is a real concern and people are dying, sorry if it's inconvenient.

Terrific. Just do me a favor and stop trying to be cute. Just say what you have to say.

I haven't provided any end-state projections of my own on the forum. On purpose. But it might be time. What the majority of the consultants and epidemiologists are projecting is based on many unknowns (actual number of infections, actual CFR, actual R-naught, actual existing disease demographics, actual compliance with non-contact recommendations - you cannot become infected without proximity to a human or something a human has recently touched). So anything, it could be argued, is a guess. Including what I'm about to say. And what I'm about to say is why you hear an increasingly sobering tone from the WH and its consultants. Viruses in particular, again, are very mathematical in their spread and effect, and lend themselves very well to straight line predictions. With the unknowns previously mentioned affecting all of them.

What we do have substantial data on, worldwide, after months of progression, is relative fatality compared to identified infections. Those are hard numbers. And a better-than-WAG "guess" on the potential percentage of a given population that might ultimately become infected.
With the odd undeveloped areas of the globe unreported. I'll use a conservative 40% estimate for total infection rate in a population. Just using the data we have, if case fatality compared to known infections holds (which pray God it won't - and there are many reasons it might not), we might see 160M deaths worldwide within 2 years. And 2.8M deaths in the US. With current measures in place. Those numbers represent two or three times the fatalities during the whole of the 1918 flu pandemic, in the US and globally. And they are possible. They are in fact staring at us right now, for the analysts looking at them, like an incoming tidal wave. The economic and humanitarian impact of those numbers is something we can't really imagine right now. That's why the President is willing to trash the economy, at least temporarily, having been shown the wave from the ground floor window.

I have explained previously the multiple things that will potentially - perhaps even probably - mitigate those projections. Much of what we do, right now, may help alter that course. And I like to believe, in my heart, that they will. But they might not. However the dice fall, the final number of fatalities will be large. Very large. And for all of us who come through it - and may all of you - you, and life, and the world, will forever be changed.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I'll tell you what, we restart this economy tomorrow, and I'll humor the masses and wear a mask.

If it got the economy restarted, I'd be happy to wear one too.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Terrific. Just do me a favor and stop trying to be cute. Just say what you have to say.

Sorry I thought given the quotes I was replying to my message was quite obvious.

For anyone who didn't get it. We can't just let it progress with no mediation and hope for a miracle.

So far today alone 911 people have died and double the number of people who died on 9/11 have died. We started two wars over that.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Rumor is that there will be a Presidential order to wear masks, reversing earlier CDC guidelines.

I am ready...


Mask - 1 by kpkina, on Flickr

So they want to save masks for healthcare workers because of low supply AND require that all 300+million Americans wear one as well huh. Sounds like they just skipped past retarded and went to full on potato. Sorry but Im not wearing a mask while mowing my lawn. Shopping sure, just for stepping outside- bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Sorry I thought given the quotes I was replying to my message was quite obvious.

Sure, whatever you say.

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
So they want to save masks for healthcare workers because of low supply AND require that all 300+million Americans wear one as well huh. Sounds like they just skipped past retarded and went to full on potato. Sorry but Im not wearing a mask while mowing my lawn. Shopping sure, just for stepping outside- bullshit.

Healthcare workers need properly fitted N95 masks to protect them from constant close-range exposure to infected people and machines and procedures that aerosolize the virus.

It sounds like the CDC rec is going to be for reusable cloth masks, basically to remind you not to touch your face.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
So they want to save masks for healthcare workers because of low supply AND require that all 300+million Americans wear one as well huh. Sounds like they just skipped past retarded and went to full on potato. Sorry but Im not wearing a mask while mowing my lawn. Shopping sure, just for stepping outside- bullshit.

Healthcare workers need properly fitted N95 masks to protect them from constant close-range exposure to infected people and machines and procedures that aerosolize the virus.

It sounds like the CDC rec is going to be for reusable cloth masks, basically to remind you not to touch your face.

Yeah I get that, Im a paramedic in Los Angeles and Ive been transporting confirmed Covid patients every shift this week. Last week I only had one suspected. Next week I expect it to be the majority of my calls. A cloth mask has very limited droplet protection at best, sure its better than nothing, but an order like this will lead to an even worse supply chain for us.

We were told today to try and get our operations down to "ghost town" levels and that we may not be up to normal operational levels until September or possibly later. My state has spent a decent amount of $$$ getting us WebEx licenses and the necessary equipment so we can work from home. Standard work is delayed, for now, until June and we are only handling "mission critical" operations until then. This is fairly standard nationwide at both the state and federal level. My brother, who works for NASA, has been working from home for about 3 weeks.

Two of my nephews are ER docs and they have made similar comments to me that Doc H just made.

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:

Yeah I get that, Im a paramedic in Los Angeles and Ive been transporting confirmed Covid patients every shift this week. Last week I only had one suspected. Next week I expect it to be the majority of my calls. A cloth mask has very limited droplet protection at best, sure its better than nothing, but an order like this will lead to an even worse supply chain for us.

It's impossible, we'd need literally billions (with a B) of masks in order to do this. This is the whole reason they lied to begin with and said masks are useless. People like your self need them, and they wanted medical professionals to have them first.

If supplies ever catch up, everyone should be wearing masks til this mess has burned out or cures/vaccines are in place. If you wash your hands, wear masks, and don't touch face the chance of spread falls off a cliff.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
....

Two of my nephews are ER docs and they have made similar comments to me that Doc H just made.

You just email them the 'everyone panic' GIF and tell them they are overreacting.

Skins, stop posting in this thread for tonight. Just cool it. Don't respond, don't even say "OK". Just be quiet for a while.


You're spamming this thread and you are pissing me off.

Some of the hospitals arent helping any. UCLA is requiring EMS personnel take off all of their PPE and put on fresh gowns and gloves- the mask and goggles stay on. So basically we are forced to use 2 staff protection kits every time we transport there. My idea is bring the bed out to us in the parking lot and we’ll just do the transfer there. Outside every ER in LA County they have tents and isolation areas set up for triaging Covid patients. We should be transferring care to those areas for stable patients vs going all the way into the ER. The plus side is the County has allowed us based on our assessment to deny transport to stable patients with non life threatening emergencies. So the last 2 weeks in March showed our overall transport volume decrease, but its starting to pick up again already.

19 dead in Oregon, another 91 year old added to the count today.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Terrific. Just do me a favor and stop trying to be cute. Just say what you have to say.

Sorry I thought given the quotes I was replying to my message was quite obvious.

For anyone who didn't get it. We can't just let it progress with no mediation and hope for a miracle.

So far today alone 911 people have died and double the number of people who died on 9/11 have died. We started two wars over that.

At the risk of sticking my head in the lion's mouth, I'm going to offer this. 'I' am one of those who want the economy back open now. Not for my 401K or investment portfolio, but for the damage that's being done to millions of people and businesses countrywide, much of which will be unrecoverable. Conversely, do I think we should sit back, do nothing, and let this thing simply run its course unfettered? Of course not. I simply believe there's a better approach than simply shutting down the entire country until the mental midgets in Washington can find something to come out from under their desks to tell us. And just to be absolutely clear, I have two parents still alive and kicking, both in their 80's and both suffering from co-morbidities that make them especially vulnerable to this virus. Hence the reason my brother and I have been shopping for them weekly and leaving their groceries on their porch rather than spending time with them. We've essentially quarantined them for their own good.

Ultimately, with no vaccine available, and contrary to all the bloviating, a very limited grasp of this virus itself at this point, the reality is people are going to die and there's nothing we can do to stop that reality.

Would it be inappropriate to suggest this person be burned at the stake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-ROL...6:g:SoEAAOSwcBleatI3

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
Based upon the last paragraph I’m pretty sure you’re joking but I’m just going to double check- you are joking right? Rationing health care based solely upon age is wrong regardless of who is doing it. When the talks of death panels came about during the enactment of Obamacare everyone was up in arms. I would hope that people would be equally up in arms if some “authority” were to begin making decisions with respect to treatment and policies towards the elderly. Letting old folks die without treatment just because they’re old and we can keep the Ponzi scheme of social security and Medicare going a little longer is repugnant.

I'm pretty sure you are right about the sarcasm, but taken seriously, the country might be more financially strong, but it would be much weaker morally. It appears that the quote "America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." has been wrongly attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville, but there is probably still something to the sentiment.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Would it be inappropriate to suggest this person be burned at the stake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-ROL...6:g:SoEAAOSwcBleatI3

Yes. Surely we can come up with something a little more challenging. Maybe stripped, covered in honey, and staked out spread eagle over a large red ant hill?

If you insist on flame, at least make it a <what's the word?> necktie. Tie up, hang tire around neck, dump gasoline inside tire, light gasoline on fire. The problem is this is too fast and not painful enough.

Here's a graph of new deaths by date, per million population, for each state with cumulative deaths > 100. I'll update next week if people are interested.
It shows, for one thing, that NY and NJ are still catastrophes, and CA not nearly as scary as our Leftist governor makes out--so far.
The graph is taken from data on covidtracking.com, with state populations from 2019.