Rest assured, we're plenty happy yer not in charge.

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It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden over the next few weeks. Their doubling time is longer than that of many other countries pre-lockdown (just looking at the graph, it looks like every 7-8 days), but so far, they are still experiencing pretty consistent exponential growth.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden over the next few weeks...
What if it doesn't progress any faster than places (like the US) that have voluntarily collapsed their own economy?

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Rest assured, we're plenty happy yer not in charge.

I was fully expecting that.

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Originally posted by DonDraper:

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Originally posted by chellim1:

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James Woods on Twitter has posted some interesting cell phone videos and security videos that don't seem to be making it onto the news. I don't advocate a racist approach to Chinese folks, but there does seem to a few of them acting "suspiciously."

They are doing it on purpose. These people are agents... carrying out a mission.

I love James Woods and follow him on Twitter, but sometimes I think he goes off into Alex Jones land a bit. There is no indication of where or when some of those video clips were taken. Take off the tinfoil hats people... FTLOG

Yep. Just more woke liberals upset about the treatment of their forefathers during the gold rush or something...

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Originally posted by ensigmatic:

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Originally posted by TXJIM:

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Originally posted by ensigmatic:

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Originally posted by sigmonkey:

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Originally posted by ensigmatic:...

That's the entire problem right now. If people would just follow safe social interaction practices, none of this shutting-down of things and extreme social distancing measures would be necessary. But they don't. And my bet is, once the restrictions are removed, they still won't....

Tell us, what then is acceptable in this "new world" we will find ourselves?

It's not a question of what is "acceptable." It's a question of what we have to do to avoid becoming infected and infecting others. Not unlike the things we learned to do centuries ago, when some bright individual connected the dots and discovered rats spread disease, so we needed to control the rat population. Well, some of us, anyway. Some cultures, not so much.

I think the Monkey is trying to point out that some rats are less controllable than others, particularly hungry rats.

Ok. Fine. But I wasn't suggesting anybody be controlled in the first place. I was suggesting that, unless people learned to control themselves, the infection rate will more than likely just ramp right back up.

And now we've circled completely back to the beginning of this debate, and what I argued from the beginning. Without a vaccine to inoculate the public to prevent the spread and/or to kill existing infection, social distancing is nothing more than trying to hold back the ocean knowing full well that's impossible. The minute restrictions are lifted, the infection rate will take off again. So do we....

1) Be restricted to our homes for the next year plus until a vaccine can be fully vetted and distributed, while the US economy craters leaving an environment far more devastating than the virus we've been hiding from, or,
2) Do we accept a certain mortality rate, try and protect those most at risk, continue to work toward a vaccine, but turn the economy back on and deal with what ensues.

I fear I know what the answer will be.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Rest assured, we're plenty happy yer not in charge.

I was fully expecting that.

I want you guys to be nice to each other.

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Originally posted by chellim1:
It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden over the next few weeks...
What if it doesn't progress any faster than places (like the US) that have voluntarily collapsed their own economy?

If that happens then obviously everyone overreacted.

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

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James Woods on Twitter has posted some interesting cell phone videos and security videos that don't seem to be making it onto the news. I don't advocate a racist approach to Chinese folks, but there does seem to a few of them acting "suspiciously."

They are doing it on purpose. These people are agents... carrying out a mission.

I love James Woods and follow him on Twitter, but sometimes I think he goes off into Alex Jones land a bit. There is no indication of where or when some of those video clips were taken. Take off the tinfoil hats people... FTLOG

It's just some people doing....some things....

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden over the next few weeks...
What if it doesn't progress any faster than places (like the US) that have voluntarily collapsed their own economy?

If that happens then obviously everyone overreacted.

Sweden's fatality rate per identified cases today is 5.5%. In the US we would have had over 13,000 fatalities at this point with the same data, more than double the current number. We couldn't have asked a country to do this, but it will be important data in the final analysis. Their strategy appears to be costing them, and there is now some substantial questioning of their government's decision by the public.

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Originally posted by Chris17404:
End game: Once we are well on the backside of the flattened curve, and enough people in the US have gotten the virus and recovered from it (60%-70% herd immunity) then things will go back to normal. This herd immunity coupled with a successful vaccine and treatment drugs will let us go back to normal. We went back to normal after Spanish Flu, and we will after this.

One huge difference you're not taking into account between this effort and that surrounding the Spanish Flu, is that we didn't completely cripple the American economy trying to address that bug. Again, as the Monkey noted, I fear man has done far more damage through his reaction to the virus than the virus will ever do.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
And now we've circled completely back to the beginning of this debate, and what I argued from the beginning. Without a vaccine to inoculate the public to prevent the spread and/or to kill existing infection, social distancing is nothing more than trying to hold back the ocean knowing full well that's impossible. The minute restrictions are lifted, the infection rate will take off again. So do we....

1) Be restricted to our homes for the next year plus until a vaccine can be fully vetted and distributed, while the US economy craters leaving an environment far more devastating than the virus we've been hiding from, or,
2) Do we accept a certain mortality rate, try and protect those most at risk, continue to work toward a vaccine, but turn the economy back on and deal with what ensues.

I fear I know what the answer will be.

With a greatly expanded testing capacity and more people actually taking this virus seriously, there's at least a possibility that, if we can get the number of active cases low enough first, we can control the spread of the disease with aggressive testing, contact tracing, and individual quarantine and much less restrictive population-wide measures.

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Originally posted by maladat:
With a greatly expanded testing capacity and more people actually taking this virus seriously, there's at least a possibility that, if we can get the number of active cases low enough first, we can control the spread of the disease with aggressive testing, contact tracing, and individual quarantine and much less restrictive population-wide measures.

Herein lies the rub: There are still going to be people getting infected in June, July, August, etc. So at what point do we remove all restrictions? We need to be looking further down the road than just this April and this May.

And, do we go through this whole scenario again in the fall, winter or maybe even next spring?

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
With a greatly expanded testing capacity and more people actually taking this virus seriously, there's at least a possibility that, if we can get the number of active cases low enough first, we can control the spread of the disease with aggressive testing, contact tracing, and individual quarantine and much less restrictive population-wide measures.

Herein lies the rub: There are still going to be people getting infected in June, July, August, etc. So at what point do we remove all restrictions? We need to be looking further down the road than just this April and this May.

And, do we go through this whole scenario again in the fall, winter or maybe even next spring?

Well, the idea would be to get the number of active cases low enough that we can spend enough time and effort on every single person that tests positive to check everyone we can find that they may have exposed and limit their ability to spread the virus.

A significant percentage of infected individuals being asymptomatic would make that much more difficult. We would have to do a hell of a lot of testing to have any chance of making it work.

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden over the next few weeks...
What if it doesn't progress any faster than places (like the US) that have voluntarily collapsed their own economy?

If that happens then obviously everyone overreacted.

How do you figure that? The results in a small homogeneous county of about 10 million mostly healthy people are pretty meaningless as a single data point. Good or bad, their results will tell us almost nothing of what would happen in our country of 325 million with a 40% obesity rate and a 10% diabetes rate.

They don't have race riots at 1 year old birthdays or entire websites dedicated to the nasty "People of Ikea"

^date? Who knows. I do wonder if there will be Cuomo facemasks at the DNC on August 17th.

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
With a greatly expanded testing capacity and more people actually taking this virus seriously, there's at least a possibility that, if we can get the number of active cases low enough first, we can control the spread of the disease with aggressive testing, contact tracing, and individual quarantine and much less restrictive population-wide measures.

Herein lies the rub: There are still going to be people getting infected in June, July, August, etc. So at what point do we remove all restrictions? We need to be looking further down the road than just this April and this May.

And, do we go through this whole scenario again in the fall, winter or maybe even next spring?

It can not go on all summer. Right now our economy will bounce back but there is a tipping point.

Also hopefully once you get it your have immunity from getting it again. So as more people get it and can not get it again it will become more difficult to spread and our medical systems can keep up with it better than they can currently.

Hopefully, we will have some better treatments and a vaccine.

Tucker Carlson covered a story of 3M corporation not filling orders for N-95s placed a month ago by states like Florida, whose Emergency Management Director was Tucker’s guest. Turns out, after the Florida official spent the day working his way up the food chain at 3M, that 3M’s “authorized distributors” are selling these masks to foreign buyers who show up with “cash in hand.” American state emergency management organizations, hospitals, and first responders are being pushed down for profits, and badly needed supplies shipped overseas.

I’m certain that by tomorrow morning a video of the segment will be available. Don’t miss it!

This came up during the President's briefing today. He's going to come down hard on this and tomorrow will authorize the USPS, UPS, Customs, Border Patrol and others to block these shipments.

Here’s a question for the medical staff here on the forum. Given that enough ventilators are produced and distributed to any and all hospitals in need, how many ventilators can one health professional manage on a shift? Is it a specialty skill, or is it within the scope of an average nurse’s training? I’m assuming not, but am curious as to the burden. I’m also assuming if one is on a ventilator it is 24/7 management until you are off of it. Thanks in advance!

The SARS-CoV-2 (cause of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic respiratory disease) will be with us for a long time.

We are used to the seasonal flu.

And whether you get the flu shot or not (statement not a question).

It would seem, that from this thread, the President and the Administration, conversations, health news and (uggh) the media, there are four measures at our disposal:

- Identifying every case rapidly with extensive testing, and isolating cases.

- Tracking and quarantine of contacts.

- Travel restrictions.

- Social distancing (including lockdown) to reduce contact (and therefore spread of infection) between people.

Yup, there will be some with Constitutional and Rights issues of the above, and not to dilute that in any way.

If your President asked the above measures of you, would you?

No need to reply a yes or no, or something else, or start a survey in this thread.

Just think about it. You and yours to protect.

--chris