quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I wonder what effect it would have if we chose to let 2.5m of the oldest and sickest (plus some of the healthy ones that are just unlucky) die? Provided only pain medicine unless it was 100% certain they'd live through it.

Would our country come out stronger? Medicare would be rid of it's most expensive customers. SS insolvency would be pushed back a few years, health insurance premiums may go down slightly. Inheritance would pass on to the younger generations sooner.

The mass graves or burn pits would be problematic, but the economy would have chugged along ok with companies staffing at 70% as employees that live are home recovering for three+ weeks. The body bag manufacturing and lime industry would see returns like they'd never seen.

Based upon the last paragraph I’m pretty sure you’re joking but I’m just going to double check- you are joking right? Rationing health care based solely upon age is wrong regardless of who is doing it. When the talks of death panels came about during the enactment of Obamacare everyone was up in arms. I would hope that people would be equally up in arms if some “authority” were to begin making decisions with respect to treatment and policies towards the elderly. Letting old folks die without treatment just because they’re old and we can keep the Ponzi scheme of social security and Medicare going a little longer is repugnant.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by tanner:
Thanks! So I’m curious, is it one RT per patient, or can an RT manage several patients simultaneously? The nut of it, is even if we have the ventilator equipment, will we have the number of RT’s to manage the load? I’m assuming that people just can’t learn the stuff as OJT.

.

An RT is state licensed, has an associates or bachelors degree. It’s not OJT.

My wife ran a NICU and can run a ventilator there. She says if the RT is very good they can run two. There’s suction, blood work and adjustments all the time, so two is pushing it.

Yes, she’s been called. Her reply was they might as well put her in the bed next to the patient. She’s very high risk

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I wonder what effect it would have if we chose to let 2.5m of the oldest and sickest (plus some of the healthy ones that are just unlucky) die? Provided only pain medicine unless it was 100% certain they'd live through it.

Would our country come out stronger? Medicare would be rid of it's most expensive customers. SS insolvency would be pushed back a few years, health insurance premiums may go down slightly. Inheritance would pass on to the younger generations sooner.

The mass graves or burn pits would be problematic, but the economy would have chugged along ok with companies staffing at 70% as employees that live are home recovering for three+ weeks. The body bag manufacturing and lime industry would see returns like they'd never seen.

Just what exactly is your problem? Explain this to me.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
If we go to war with China we’d better hope we have an ass left to wipe when it’s over and not be worrying what we will wipe it with.

The consequences of even a limited nuclear exchange would be beyond what most people can imagine. We can only hope that the Chinese leadership is smarter than anyone here who thinks that war would be a good idea.

I know I don't think it is a good idea. My point is that it is a higher probability than many would suspect, and could be catastrophic.

this is the next update comparing actual NY data to the Cuomo prediction on 24 Mar

This is important because it was the 24 Mar prediction that drove things like the need for 40,000 ventilators.

Actual data so far looks diff than the 24 Mar prediction



The 24 Mar projection assumed the cases doubled every 3 days. Now the doubling wouldn't really go all the way to 11 Apr because at some point the exponential slows down and peaks.

As of about 10pm tonight the "cumulative cases" for NY are at 92,739.

Even that needs an adjustment. With 2382 deaths and 6507 recoveries, the "active cases" for NY are 83,850

IHME is now predicting the NY peak resource day is 9 April (earlier than the prior assumption of 11 Apr)

So unless something very dramatic happens, the 24 Mar projection will be pretty far off. In particular that means NY would need a lot less ventilators than 40,000.

Let's hope that is how it plays out.

In defense of Cuomo, the data at 24 Mar did look like a doubling every 3 days. The rate slowed down a little after 24 Mar.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

one more thing to watch is the NY death rate. At the moment it looks like a drop for today, but we will need to see what the final is for today and what happens tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
To that I would simply offer...Never gonna happen. The country is too big and our society simply isn't going to bend to the level of tracking and control you're alluding to. The is however a warning that government needs to be well aware of. The longer you hold people down in their homes while their lives and livelihoods disappear before their eyes, the less cooperative they are gonna be.

Contact tracing isn't really tracking and control - it's someone sitting down with an infected person and saying, "please tell me every person you've talked to and every place you've gone for the last two weeks so we can try to find them and make sure no one else gets sick."

That's why it is only possible if the active number of cases is small.

Certainly if we were all willing to accept constant government surveillance, an automated system could do the same thing at a much larger scale, but I agree that would be a very dangerous precedent to set and I would absolutely oppose such measures.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Houston Police Chief: Burglaries Up 20 Percent After Coronavirus Stay-Home Orders

Free not, ole Art's got it all under control. Honest question. How in the hell do moron's like this idiot get elected to a position of authority like Chief of police? Garbage collector, sure. Chief of police? Holy Hell!

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/meMQF4G9D4g" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Guess he's taking a page out of the Baltimore Mayors handbook. It didn't work there. A few people got shot this past weekend even after a plea not to clog the hospitals with shooting victims.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
this is the next update comparing actual NY data to the Cuomo prediction on 24 Mar

This is important because it was the 24 Mar prediction that drove things like the need for 40,000 ventilators.

Actual data so far looks diff than the 24 Mar prediction.

My bet, that delta continues to increase even as things get worse for NY.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bigdeal,

quote:

Originally posted by comet24:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Houston Police Chief: Burglaries Up 20 Percent After Coronavirus Stay-Home Orders

Free not, ole Art's got it all under control. Honest question. How in the hell do moron's like this idiot get elected to a position of authority like Chief of police? Garbage collector, sure. Chief of police? Holy Hell!

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/meMQF4G9D4g" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Guess he's taking a page out of the Baltimore Mayors handbook. It didn't work there. A few people got shot this past weekend even after a plea not to clog the hospitals with shooting victims.

Well, if they'd improve their damn aim a bit, they wouldn't be adding to hospital volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I wonder what effect it would have if we chose to let 2.5m of the oldest and sickest (plus some of the healthy ones that are just unlucky) die? Provided only pain medicine unless it was 100% certain they'd live through it.

Would our country come out stronger? Medicare would be rid of it's most expensive customers. SS insolvency would be pushed back a few years, health insurance premiums may go down slightly. Inheritance would pass on to the younger generations sooner.

The mass graves or burn pits would be problematic, but the economy would have chugged along ok with companies staffing at 70% as employees that live are home recovering for three+ weeks. The body bag manufacturing and lime industry would see returns like they'd never seen.

Just what exactly is your problem? Explain this to me.

Thank you Para

My hat is off to the RT’s and the anesthesiologists who are literally looking down the throats of COVID patients. I heard a statistic this morning that 20% of those on vents survive in the COVID ICU

If you look back at Skins' post history in this thread, that post looks like dark sarcasm aimed at the "put everything back to normal right now" idea.

Something in the vein of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal," which (not seriously) suggested we could fix a lot of the world's problems if we just started eating babies.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Something in the vein of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal," which (not seriously) suggested we could fix a lot of the world's problems if we just started eating babies.

Don't give the Dems new ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Don't give the Dems new ideas.

That's an old one, it was published in 1729.

The full title is "A Modest Proposal For preventing the Children of Poor People From being a Burthen to Their Parents or Country, and For making them Beneficial to the Publick."

It's about as dark as it gets, and was satirizing less extreme but pretty terrible social policies and attitudes.

Rumor is that there will be a Presidential order to wear masks, reversing earlier CDC guidelines.

I am ready...


Mask - 1 by kpkina, on Flickr

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Don't give the Dems new ideas.

That's an old one, it was published in 1729.

I am aware. But most Dems don't read, much less even know who Swift was.

Besides, I was sort of tongue in cheek referencing the whole Pizza Gate thing.

Supposed Amazon worker agering women everywhere. (NSFW language)




Link to original video: https://youtu.be/3BWQj2-8t8s

Have we got a President ? You bet!

https://www.breitbart.com/poli...m-for-medical-masks/

President Donald Trump on Thursday invoked the Defense Production Act against 3M to acquire more medical masks to fight the coronavirus.

The president responded to the news reported by Fox News host Tucker Carlson that 3M was sending masks to foreign countries instead of shipping them to the United States.

“We hit 3M hard today after seeing what they were doing with their Masks,” Trump wrote. “Big surprise to many in government as to what they were doing – will have a big price to pay!”

Director of the Florida Division of Emergency Management Jared Moskowitz appeared on Carlson’s show to shame the company for not saving the masks for American workers.

Billionaire Mark Cuban also exposed 3M distributors for making as much money as possible with the masks and even spoke to the White House about the “price gouging” he said was taking place.

The president authorized Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf for FEMA “to acquire, from any appropriate subsidiary or affiliate of 3M Company, the number of N-95 respirators that the Administrator determines to be appropriate.”

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Don't give the Dems new ideas.

That's an old one, it was published in 1729.

I am aware. But most Dems don't read, much less even know who Swift was.

Besides, I was sort of tongue in cheek referencing the whole Pizza Gate thing.

I figured, but thought some people might not have seen it before.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Rumor is that there will be a Presidential order to wear masks, reversing earlier CDC guidelines.

I am ready...

I'll tell you what, we restart this economy tomorrow, and I'll humor the masses and wear a mask.