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Originally posted by Doc H.:

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Originally posted by PowerSurge:

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Originally posted by chellim1:
It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden over the next few weeks...
What if it doesn't progress any faster than places (like the US) that have voluntarily collapsed their own economy?

If that happens then obviously everyone overreacted.

Sweden's fatality rate per identified cases today is 5.5%. In the US we would have had over 13,000 fatalities at this point with the same data, more than double the current number. We couldn't have asked a country to do this, but it will be important data in the final analysis. Their strategy appears to be costing them, and there is now some substantial questioning of their government's decision by the public.

I wonder what effect it would have if we chose to let 2.5m of the oldest and sickest (plus some of the healthy ones that are just unlucky) die? Provided only pain medicine unless it was 100% certain they'd live through it.

Would our country come out stronger? Medicare would be rid of it's most expensive customers. SS insolvency would be pushed back a few years, health insurance premiums may go down slightly. Inheritance would pass on to the younger generations sooner.

The mass graves or burn pits would be problematic, but the economy would have chugged along ok with companies staffing at 70% as employees that live are home recovering for three+ weeks. The body bag manufacturing and lime industry would see returns like they'd never seen.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
I want you guys to be nice to each other.

No drama here. Good natured fun.

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Originally posted by comet24:
So as more people get it and can not get it again it will become more difficult to spread and our medical systems can keep up with it better than they can currently.

This is true, but for the effect to be significant, a LOT of people need to be immune. The IHME model President Trump referenced yesterday, based on stay-at-home through the end of May, only predicts about 3% of the population becoming infected in that time. That isn't enough for a meaningful herd immunity effect.

The initial, nobody-does-anything-differently estimate was 40-70% of the population ultimately becoming infected. (Which doesn't seem unreasonable - this virus appears to be more infectious than flu, and despite ~40% of the population being vaccinated and many people having some immunity from past infections, in bad years 15-20% of the population gets the flu.)

Houston Police Chief: Burglaries Up 20 Percent After Coronavirus Stay-Home Orders

https://www.breitbart.com/bord...02&utm_content=Final

Houston Police Department Chief Art Acevedo said burglaries in the city are up 20 percent since the issuance of “Stay-Home, Work-Safe” orders put in place by Harris County.

“Right now, burglaries have spiked 20 percent,” Chief Acevedo told Breitbart Texas in a phone interview. “Some people are seeing the shutdown of businesses as a target-rich opportunity. Habitual burglars should not be released.”

The chief said that there needs to be a plan for what to do with habitual criminals that are being released from the Harris County jail under orders from County Judge Lina Hidalgo. “What happens to these folks after they are released,” the chief asked. “What is the plan?”

Acevedo said Judge Hidalgo did not consult with him about the issue of releasing criminals from the county jail, a large percentage of which were arrested by his officers.

Police in other cities are also reporting increases in burglaries after stay-at-home orders are issued by local authorities.

Statistics reported by the New York City Police Department’s CompStat website show a 21.8 percent increase in burglaries in the last 28 days. The site also reports auto thefts are up by 64.2 percent during the same period. Murders, robbery, and shooting incidents also showed increases.

Minneapolis police and business owners also expressed concerns over burglaries as more businesses and stores are closed due to stay-at-home orders, the StarTribune reported. Since February 5 the number of burglaries nearly doubled.

“I don’t think we’ve seen anything quite like this, but we do know when we are in times of economic crisis, that we see certain types of crime go up, so things like burglaries, robberies and domestic violence,” Hamline University criminology Prof. Jillian Peterson told the Minnesota newspaper.

Despite promises that violent criminals would not be releases, KTRK ABC13 in Houston reports that some were released on bonds as low as $10.

The Houston ABC affiliate reports:

Kelvin Hawthorne, 18, is accused of punching and choking his girlfriend on Monday. Normally, that kind of crime gets a $1000 bond and often times it’s a personal recognizance bond, which means release from jail on the promise to return.

On Tuesday, a judge granted Hawthorne a $100 bond. He paid $10, had to agree to bond conditions and was released from jail.

Craig Jones, 55, is accused of hitting and choking his wife. He has prior violent convictions. The state requested a $10,000 bond. On Tuesday, a magistrate made it much lower, granting a $300 bond.

Timothy Singleton, 21, also has prior convictions. He was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, after being accused of pulling a gun on his aunt’s neighbor. Singleton was granted a $500 bond, which means $50 would get him out of jail. Normally bond would be at least $20,000.

Tori McFarland, 23, accused of robbery with bodily injury, a violent crime, got out of jail on a $10 bond.

In anticipation of a mass-release of inmates, including violent felons, Governor Abbott issued an executive order that prohibits the release of “any person convicted of a crime that involves violence or the threat of violence, or a person currently arrested for such a crime.”

However, some of Harris County’s misdemeanor court judges plan on sidestepping the order, the Houston Chronicle reported.

“Instead, the judges will continue to abide by a federal order signed last year that called for the release of low-level defendants on no-cash bail, or personal bonds, the letter said,” according to the Houston newspaper. “Abbott’s executive order prohibited releasing defendants previously accused or convicted of a violent crime on personal bonds.”

“Using the pandemic to advance that agenda is wrong and counter-productive to the legitimate reform of the criminal justice system and bonds,” he expressed. He cited the release last week of David Cruz. Inmate Cruz is charged with murder and was released on a personal recognizance bond because of concerns about COVID-19.

“The last thing our community needs are decisions that further exacerbate public anxiety and risk to the people we serve,” Chief Acevedo concluded. “Releases of persons charged with high-level offenses place the community in grave danger and must be prevented. Violent and habitual offenders (especially burglars) need to remain in quarantine in jail.”

Acevedo told Breitbart Texas that 14 police officers under his command tested positive for the Coronavirus as of Wednesday. He said two of the officers required hospitalization — one of those recovered, the more recent case is in stable condition.

“One of my officers who initially tested positive for the virus has recently been cleared to return to work,” the chief said. “That is good news.”

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Originally posted by chellim1:

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Originally posted by Patriot:
China start a war? Why? For what reason
Land?...they have plenty
Power?...they have plenty of that too.
Ideology?...maybe, but I think they are quite happy with their mix of communism/capitalism.
No... no giant world wars any time soon. The wars to be fought will be economic and through cyber.

I agree... mostly. The wars to be fought will be primarily economic and through cyber. Spreading this disease (James Woods videos top of page 291), intentionally, through Chinese agents mixed into our population seems to be part of that. They have brought our economy to a grounding halt.

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Power?...they have plenty of that too.

That part I have to disagree with. Yes, they have power but they clearly have a desire to dominate. The desire for power becomes an insatiable lust.

All this talk of physical warfare between the US and China I find humorous. Why on earth would China do anything? The US has been damaging its own economy in favor of the Chinese economy for years, and recently, due to this virus, has stepped up that effort 100 fold. China needs to do little more than sit back and wait while we do all the heavy lifting for them. If something doesn't change, and change substantially in the way the US views its relationship with China and the world, China will evolve into the leadership role of the world economy, and they won't have to do a thing warlike to reach that position.

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Originally posted by tanner:
Here’s a question for the medical staff here on the forum. Given that enough ventilators are produced and distributed to any and all hospitals in need, how many ventilators can one health professional manage on a shift? Is it a specialty skill, or is it within the scope of an average nurse’s training? I’m assuming not, but am curious as to the burden. I’m also assuming if one is on a ventilator it is 24/7 management until you are off of it. Thanks in advance!

Not a doc, but my son spent some time in the NICU on a ventilator when he was born. The NICU doctors and nurses adjusted some things, but the people who were "in charge" of the ventilators were called respiratory therapists. My understanding is that RTs are not nurses and receive specialized training in managing respiratory support equipment (there's a lot of stuff besides ventilators).

When he was transferred between hospitals (a process which took about 2 hours), both a NICU nurse and an RT were on the transport team.

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Originally posted by maladat:

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Originally posted by tanner:
Here’s a question for the medical staff here on the forum. Given that enough ventilators are produced and distributed to any and all hospitals in need, how many ventilators can one health professional manage on a shift? Is it a specialty skill, or is it within the scope of an average nurse’s training? I’m assuming not, but am curious as to the burden. I’m also assuming if one is on a ventilator it is 24/7 management until you are off of it. Thanks in advance!

Not a doc, but my son spent some time in the NICU on a ventilator when he was born. The NICU doctors and nurses adjusted some things, but the people who were "in charge" of the ventilators were called respiratory therapists. My understanding is that RTs are not nurses and receive specialized training in managing respiratory support equipment (there's a lot of stuff besides ventilators).

When he was transferred between hospitals (a process which took about 2 hours), both a NICU nurse and an RT were on the transport team.

Thanks! So I’m curious, is it one RT per patient, or can an RT manage several patients simultaneously? The nut of it, is even if we have the ventilator equipment, will we have the number of RT’s to manage the load? I’m assuming that people just can’t learn the stuff as OJT.

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Houston Police Chief: Burglaries Up 20 Percent After Coronavirus Stay-Home Orders

Wouldn’t that also mean “hot home invasions” are up too, since more folks are staying home?

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Originally posted by SigSentry:
^date? Who knows. I do wonder if there will be Cuomo facemasks at the DNC on August 17th.

MAGA masks will be out shortly!

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Originally posted by tanner:
Thanks! So I’m curious, is it one RT per patient, or can an RT manage several patients simultaneously? The nut of it, is even if we have the ventilator equipment, will we have the number of RT’s to manage the load? I’m assuming that people just can’t learn the stuff as OJT.

I can't speak to anything but the two NICUs my son was in, but in them, a NICU nurse would be assigned 1-4 patients depending on the severity of the patient (my son had a dedicated nurse for a couple weeks, then shared a nurse with one other baby for the rest of his NICU stay) but the RTs all had larger groups of patients.

As a non-medical person, some of the simpler respiratory support devices (like CPAP and nasal cannulae) seemed pretty simple to manage but the ventilators, especially the fancy ones, have a lot of complicated settings and screwing them up can cause big problems.

Disney World and Disneyland announced they are furloughing most workers. The article does not give exact numbers, but my conservative estimate is 50K workers, high end is 100K workers.

https://www.bizjournals.com/or...ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

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Originally posted by maladat:

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Originally posted by bigdeal:
And now we've circled completely back to the beginning of this debate, and what I argued from the beginning. Without a vaccine to inoculate the public to prevent the spread and/or to kill existing infection, social distancing is nothing more than trying to hold back the ocean knowing full well that's impossible. The minute restrictions are lifted, the infection rate will take off again. So do we....

1) Be restricted to our homes for the next year plus until a vaccine can be fully vetted and distributed, while the US economy craters leaving an environment far more devastating than the virus we've been hiding from, or,
2) Do we accept a certain mortality rate, try and protect those most at risk, continue to work toward a vaccine, but turn the economy back on and deal with what ensues.

I fear I know what the answer will be.

With a greatly expanded testing capacity and more people actually taking this virus seriously, there's at least a possibility that, if we can get the number of active cases low enough first, we can control the spread of the disease with aggressive testing, contact tracing, and individual quarantine and much less restrictive population-wide measures.

To that I would simply offer...Never gonna happen. The country is too big and our society simply isn't going to bend to the level of tracking and control you're alluding to. The is however a warning that government needs to be well aware of. The longer you hold people down in their homes while their lives and livelihoods disappear before their eyes, the less cooperative they are gonna be.

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Originally posted by 2BobTanner:

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Houston Police Chief: Burglaries Up 20 Percent After Coronavirus Stay-Home Orders

Wouldn’t that also mean “hot home invasions” are up too, since more folks are staying home?

The article is referring to specifically commercial burglaries.

That is, burglaries of stores and businesses, which are now closed for extended periods.

So no, that would not correlate to a similar increase in home invasions.

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Originally posted by wcb6092:
Houston Police Chief: Burglaries Up 20 Percent After Coronavirus Stay-Home Orders

Free not, ole Art's got it all under control. Honest question. How in the hell do moron's like this idiot get elected to a position of authority like Chief of police? Garbage collector, sure. Chief of police? Holy Hell!

I like these quotes I found-

“Two things can be true at once.

1. Quarantine measures need to be taken right now in order to get the virus under control and keep people alive.

2. The extent of the quarantine measures can be questioned and challenged in order for us to keep the economy alive.

The fact that we can only talk about the former without being accused of wanting more people to die just goes to show how much we let pure emotion dictate our lives right now.”

“There isn’t actually any contradiction in the beliefs that (A) The virus is dangerous, (B) Mass unemployment is dangerous, and (C) authoritarian Government policies are dangerous. There needn’t be any cognitive dissonance holding all three at once; they’re not mutually exclusive.”

Indeed, medic.

As a retired RRT, we manage the Ventilators after getting settings, then changes, from the Drs. This comes after consulting with the Doc about changes in the pts condition. I’m sure there both working a bigger caseload than normal. A lot of what a RRT does is suctioning, aerosol txs, postural drainage and clapping on each vent pt. And working codes. That’s just the ICUs. Helluva time to be sucking snot for a living.

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Originally posted by medic451:
I like these quotes I found-

“Two things can be true at once.

1. Quarantine measures need to be taken right now in order to get the virus under control and keep people alive.

2. The extent of the quarantine measures can be questioned and challenged in order for us to keep the economy alive.

The fact that we can only talk about the former without being accused of wanting more people to die just goes to show how much we let pure emotion dictate our lives right now.”

“There isn’t actually any contradiction in the beliefs that (A) The virus is dangerous, (B) Mass unemployment is dangerous, and (C) authoritarian Government policies are dangerous. There needn’t be any cognitive dissonance holding all three at once; they’re not mutually exclusive.”

Government just cannot and will not be honest in dealing with this issue. Somebody needs to ask a few of these morons to answer the following question. "If you had 1,000 people needing a vaccine that you only had 100 doses of, what would you do? A) Refuse to administer the vaccine as it would insure the deaths of 900 people, or B) Administer the vaccine to the best candidates of the group and accept the decision isn't perfect." I guarantee you, if this question were asked of 100 politicians in Washington, you'd be lucky to find even a small handful that would even attempt to answer it. We are represented by utter cowards who refuse to be honest while assuming all of us are simply too stupid to see them for who and what they are.