^^^^^
Despite my skepticism of this situation taken as a whole, I really don't think it's proper or in good taste to make light of ANY deaths that may ensue because of this virus. JMHO...

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:


And all of this bending or flattening the curve means absolutely nothing without a 'working' vaccine, which we won't have for months (at the earliest).

No it means a lot of things, not just with those people who get the virus. It affects others who are sick or need surgery. Supplies etc, so ancillary conditions will be affected. Hurt in a car crash? Sorry you don't meet the requirements, hospital is full, no treatment. And some poor saps are going to have make those decisions and that is why the medical community is wigging out. Prioritizing who going die is not a decision people want to face.

^ There is no turning the curve into Sigmoid until the Ro is less than 1. Testing will reveal the efforts ofsuccessful mitigation. Contract tracing and isolation left the party soon after as uncontrolled community spread began. As Dr. Birx explained, when they present it meant about 3 weeks of time prior to that when the virus arrived. 50 different experiments going on right now at different timing. Hoping for rapid advances in highly urban areas as they will be slow to resume. show me pictures of a now bustling Wuhan.

Just as I believe that the media is overhyping the public health aspects of this pandemic I believe that many in the media as well as many people here are overhyping the economic impact of this. Sure it’s bad, but if we are talking about a 3 week shutdown, we are talking about 6% of the year.yes that’s going to be bad but it’s not like end of the world bad. Plus we may see benefit from moving some manufacturing back to the US as weaknesses have been identified by almost everyone from our dependence on China. Globalism has been far more bad for the US than good, and the economic consequences of putting the brakes on globalism may well end up being a net positive. And just as I feel bad for those people who may die from Covid-19, I feel bad for those people that have lost their jobs, however I don’t doubt for a second that those job losses will be permanent or even long term. So just as we shouldn’t overdo the health consequences of this, we also shouldn’t overdo the economic consequences either.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
What this thread needs is more charts and graphs. And maybe repost those charts and graphs a few more times.

Then complain when people skim and repost things yet again.

Rhino, were you weaned off the teat too soon?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
One thing's for sure, public schools will continue to get paid.

That's one thing no one has thought far enough ahead yet to mention; city, county and state government income. All of these cannot operate on a deficit like the federal government can. They are fine now, they have already collected for their 2020 operating budget, but what happens next year?

What happens when the housing market prices drop 20% or more? Property taxes drop also.

Orange County (Orlando) has a "bed tax" on hotels, 6% over and above the sales tax. How much is that going to drop? Because right now it is essentially shut off.

And just basic sales tax in general, that is normally 6.5%-7% of sales around here. All restaurants and bars are closed. Many retail businesses are closed. In many places, not only has that flow slowed, it has stopped.

City, county and state governments are going to be in for a rude awakening when to comes to their 2021 budgets.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:
.....

Hearing and understanding, and I believe that's exactly what the Boss may be getting to. Glad to see his response, and it's a balance I'm happy I don't have to decide.

It's a choice that is impossible to get perfect. I'm hoping he hits the right balance.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
Just as I believe that the media is overhyping the public health aspects of this pandemic I believe that many in the media as well as many people here are overhyping the economic impact of this. Sure it’s bad, but if we are talking about a 3 week shutdown, we are talking about 6% of the year.yes that’s going to be bad but it’s not like end of the world bad. Plus we may see benefit from moving some manufacturing back to the US as weaknesses have been identified by almost everyone from our dependence on China. Globalism has been far more bad for the US than good, and the economic consequences of putting the brakes on globalism may well end up being a net positive. And just as I feel bad for those people who may die from Covid-19, I feel bad for those people that have lost their jobs, however I don’t doubt for a second that those job losses will be permanent or even long term. So just as we shouldn’t overdo the health consequences of this, we also shouldn’t overdo the economic consequences either.

Ten years from now when we've had benefit of time to fully analyze all of this, people are going to look back and wonder how a country of 300+ million people were so bamboozled by a bunch of hucksters and liars into damaging our economy and the lives of millions over a virus that the vast majority of people got and simply recovered from.

And I don't give a damn how little the US economy might be impacted. I don't think any of us would elect to have surgery if the benefits were far outweighed by the negatives. And IMO that's where we sit right now.

Just a bit more of the rampant bullshit for you to chew on.

Are buses and subways still running in NYC and Boston?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
What this thread needs is more charts and graphs. And maybe repost those charts and graphs a few more times.

Nesting the big ones, that take up half the page, in replies is always appreciated by me in these threads.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Ten years from now when we've had benefit of time to fully analyze all of this, people are going to look back and wonder how a country of 300+ million people were so bamboozled by a bunch of hucksters and liars into damaging our economy and the lives of millions over a virus that the vast majority of people got and simply recovered from.

And I don't give a damn how little the US economy might be impacted. I don't think any of us would elect to have surgery if the benefits were far outweighed by the negatives. And IMO that's where we sit right now.

And creating $ TRILLIONS of new dollars as 'stimulus' is part of that...
IMO inflating the currency will do damage in the long run. I was against it in 2009, and I'm against it now.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Ten years from now when we've had benefit of time to fully analyze all of this, people are going to look back and wonder how a country of 300+ million people were so bamboozled by a bunch of hucksters and liars into damaging our economy and the lives of millions over a virus that the vast majority of people got and simply recovered from.

And I don't give a damn how little the US economy might be impacted. I don't think any of us would elect to have surgery if the benefits were far outweighed by the negatives. And IMO that's where we sit right now.

And creating $ TRILLIONS of new dollars as 'stimulus' is part of that...
IMO inflating the currency will do damage in the long run. I was against it in 2009, and I'm against it now.

I think if you took a poll 6 months from now the answer would be "hell no". If you look at all those bell-shaped curves on TV, the one thing to notice is THE AREA UNDER THE CURVE IS ABOUT THE SAME FOR EACH SCENARIO. Unless you find a vaccine that works 100% (hell, measles is 50%), test it, and distribute it in 90 days, as soon as you lift the quarantine the same people are going to get sick and die.

When, and if, they do antibody testing they will find that 70-80% of Americans already have antibodies to this virus, as its cousins have been around for years.

TL/DR the economy was killed by its own immune system...politics

Based on what I saw from the left in the Senate regarding the stimulus bill. And the degree of disgust I feel at the pure partisan bullshit at a time the America needs action not posturing and pandering, I am of the opinion that the citizens give this virus another week or so to get the hopeful start that the experts have laid out, and then completely ignore the rules and mandates and conduct their lives and business as they see fit. Much of Washington doesn't give a shit about us or this country, rather they care about their own power even in the midst of this crisis. So fuck it, take their cue and do as you damn well please. They set the tone, let's roll with it. If bodies pile up like bags of ham, well, that's just part of the cost.

quote:

How many of us on SigForum can say we know someone affected by COVID-19?
.

I'm one here. A cousin in a nearby state. Two suspected cases nearby, but can't get tested to confirm.

This evening talking to my 21 yo son, he made the interesting observation that the thin veneer that protected our society peeled back to something slightly resembling a third world country, like Venezuela. Standing in lines for groceries. Toilet paper madness. Empty shelves in grocery stores. Healthcare systems overwhelmed. Economy in a tailspin. A frightened population.

No viral pandemic in known history has resulted in the exponential growth curve that every would be statistician who couldn't pass algebra is now predicting. They ALWAYS taper off long before the doom sayers predictions are reached.

Why?

Because sick people come out of "circulation" and stop infecting others.
Because some people are immune or not very susceptible.
Because absent confounding factors the mortality is much lower than first presented.

Yet the same mantra is preached every time.

"This will exponentially infect half of the population in two months!"
"Millions may die!"

How often have they been right? How about, never?

Pelosi trying to jam some of the worst DEM policy into the next stimulus bill.

Just one example:

https://www.breitbart.com/2020...g-without-any-limit/

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s new stimulus bill would mandate nationwide “ballot harvesting,” allowing party operatives to return other people’s ballots to polling places without “any limit” on the number of ballots.

“Ballot harvesting” was legalized in California in 2016, and first used in the 2018 midterm elections. It allows anyone to drop off someone else’s mail-in ballot at a polling station. There is no process for vetting or verifying those delivering the ballots — no background checks or identification requirements. Democrats dropped hundreds of thousands of ballots off at polling stations in 2018, helping Democrats as they flipped seven Republican seats.

The practice is illegal in most other states, largely because it is susceptible to fraud and intimidation.

Pelosi wants to take that system nationwide.

Her bill, released Monday afternoon, provides that every state:

A) shall permit a voter to designate any person to return a voted and sealed absentee ballot to the post office, a ballot drop-off location, tribally designated building, or election office so long as the person designated to return the ballot does not receive any form of compensation based on the number of ballots that the person has returned and no individual, group, or organization provides compensation on this basis; and (B) may not put any limit on how many voted and sealed absentee ballots any designated person can return to the post office, a ballot drop off location, tribally designated building, or election office.

Trump needs to get ahold of the this ^^^^ and read it out loud at a press conference and shame them all!