quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
I thought one report I read said the US Navy thought it was resting in <300 feet of water. That seems somewhat shallow for that distance from shore.

I thought I heard a news report that the area where they lost them was close to the continental shelf. Depths could be anywhere from 300 ft to over 10,000 ft if they went off the slope. That would be no bueno.

"Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep,
Its own appointed limits keep.
Oh hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea. Amen."

Ushuaia to Mar Del Plata is all under 200m depth, most of it is under 100m. If the seas were 20' that was a rough ride in that shallow water even running close to the bottom.
We blew up a research submarine while charging the batteries on the deck of the support ship while docked in Louisiana in the 90's. (somebody lit a cigarette 20 feet from a "DANGER, no smoking!" sign, He got some serious acid burns for his trouble) Hydrogen gas is highly explosive at a wide range of concentrations, around 4% to 70%. Torpedoes are also not the most stable things in the world.

Continental platform is quite shallow but they're feared to have sailed past it.

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I can't imagine the emotion that these two are going through.


At the very last minute, two sailors did not board the Argentinian submarine that has been lost in the South Atlantic for nine days now.

For different reasons, Humberto Vilte and Adrián Rothlisberger did not board the submarine with the 44 other crew members, according to O Globo, a Brazilian newspaper.

Vilte was allowed to skip the mission after he learned that his mother had been hospitalized, O Globo reported. Known by his friends as "Beto," Vilte was not only given permission to leave, but the navy also paid for his trip back home, according to Argentinian newspaper Clarín.

Since the submarine’s disappearance, Vilte changed his profile picture to an image of the ARA San Juan shield with a black ribbon, Clarín reported.

Rothlisberger was released from the trip after he had fulfilled a series of tasks for his boss, his mother said, according to O Globo. He avoided the trip in “a matter of seconds,” Sandra Álvares said.

Álvares told Radio Dos that it is a “miracle” that her son did not board the submarine.

“Keep praying,” she said.

Both men have reportedly traveled back to Mar del Plata, a coastal city in Argentina, where loved ones have gathered to await news of the submarine’s fate.

The Argentinian navy said Thursday an explosion occurred near the time and place where the sub went missing on Nov. 15, causing some loved ones to give up hope that the crew will be rescued. Navy officials worry that even if the submarine is still intact, the crew might be running out of oxygen.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2...-at-last-minute.html

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
I thought one report I read said the US Navy thought it was resting in <300 feet of water. That seems somewhat shallow for that distance from shore.

Navionics has graciously put their charts online, for free. You can find depth and contours for anywhere in the world here:
https://webapp.navionics.com/#...g@3&key=~%7B_rFrbcdI

250 miles south of Mar del Plata could be on the continental shelf, or in deep water, depending on the sub's exact route.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
"Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep,
Its own appointed limits keep.
Oh hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea. Amen."

Mike, I echo these sentiments. Thanks for posting.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:


So if they submerged and several batteries were leaking hydrogen, they lose propulsion and cannot surface, hydrogen continues to build until it finds an ignition source and the hull is compromised. Plausible?

The batteries would only be expelling hydrogen if they are actively being charged (again, assuming they are lead acid batteries). When they are not being charged, they are not giving off hydrogen. If they were submerged, then they would not be charging the batteries. Do I have that right?

I don't believe batteries giving off hydrogen was the issue here.

Depending on the battery, they can go in to thermal runaway. Nothing can put it out except full immersion and when super hot hits cold...

Media reported the batteries are lead acid and were sort of remanufactured instead of replaced, recently.

Former sailor said the sub should carry 35 not 44 crewmembers.



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quote:

Originally posted by 0-0:
Media reported the batteries are lead acid and were sort of remanufactured instead of replaced, recently.

Former sailor said the sub should carry 35 not 44 crewmembers.



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I have NEVER seen remanufactured batteries be worth a shit. Knowing this I would guess a battery grenaded or two.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I have NEVER seen remanufactured batteries be worth a shit. Knowing this I would guess a battery grenaded or two.

Spent many of days at sea on re-manufactured batteries and I'm still here. I'm starting to believe that there was a bad decision made by someone in charge (ie....the CO.). The problem is, we'll never know if it's sitting on the bottom in pieces.

quote:

Originally posted by olfuzzy:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I have NEVER seen remanufactured batteries be worth a shit. Knowing this I would guess a battery grenaded or two.

Spent many of days at sea on re-manufactured batteries and I'm still here. I'm starting to believe that there was a bad decision made by someone in charge (ie....the CO.). The problem is, we'll never know if it's sitting on the bottom in pieces.

Well, if they never find it, then nobody will know.

It went through a major refit in Brazil in 2013 where the entire sub was cut in half and repowered and refit. So it's anybody's guess as to what really happened.

The US Navy will find it. I am sorry this happened to those sailors. I hope they didn't suffer.

Amen. Tragic.

The whole "cutting it in half" during retrofit makes me wonder. If they couldn't build their own sub in the first place, would they be able to successfully cut through the pressure hull and stitch it back together? No matter who is doing it that just seems like it is full of danger. Is that common on a retrofit?

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
The US Navy will find it. I am sorry this happened to those sailors. I hope they didn't suffer.

Yeah. Too much time has passed. The chances are slim. I also hope they didn't suffer. I pray their families can find peace.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Amen. Tragic.

The whole "cutting it in half" during retrofit makes me wonder. If they couldn't build their own sub in the first place, would they be able to successfully cut through the pressure hull and stitch it back together? No matter who is doing it that just seems like it is full of danger. Is that common on a retrofit?

It's not uncommon, depending on what has to be done. I don't imagine they have the "SubSafe" certified welders that are used in this country.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Amen. Tragic.

The whole "cutting it in half" during retrofit makes me wonder. If they couldn't build their own sub in the first place, would they be able to successfully cut through the pressure hull and stitch it back together? No matter who is doing it that just seems like it is full of danger. Is that common on a retrofit?

I know nothing on subs.

But on steel freighters/ships, it is somewhat common to cut them in half, sometimes weld a new piece of hull in the middle (to extend the length) and to weld the two sides together. Or to cut it in half if the engine has a catastrophic failure and to weld it back together.

I would assume it's possible on a submarine also, but only as good as the quality of metal you're welding and the expertise of the welders themselves. The entire submarine started it's life as a bunch of plates that were welded together, but obviously easier to get it right when the metal is new and clean, hasn't been stressed, is in the proper jigs, and you're the welder at the shipyard in Germany building it.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The entire submarine started it's life as a bunch of plates that were welded together,

It's a lot more systematized than that. They build ships and submarines in modules, move the modules together on giant SPMTs, weld the modules together, NDE the welds, connect the systems together, rinse and repeat until they have the whole thing assembled, integration folks come in and get everything working together, and QA/QC checks everything out. I know because they build Oil & gas offshore platforms in the same shipyards.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The entire submarine started it's life as a bunch of plates that were welded together,

It's a lot more systematized than that. They build ships and submarines in modules, move the modules together on giant SPMTs, weld the modules together, NDE the welds, connect the systems together, rinse and repeat until they have the whole thing assembled, integration folks come in and get everything working together, and QA/QC checks everything out. I know because they build Oil & gas offshore platforms in the same shipyards.

I understand that, but I was getting the point across that the entire sub started as a bunch of steel plates that are welded together......so cutting it in half and welding it back together is do able (in the right shipyard of course) and somewhat similar in construction.

TODAY we learn that THE DAY BEFORE the sub last report it had declared a fire and that comms were compromised. A day later, before it went missing, the capt. said it was under control and the base decided to have the sub continue as planned instead of taking and precautionary measures that would have put the ship closer to shallower waters and more immediate assistance if required. The ship went missing on wed. and the Navy informed the DefMin the next day.

A lot of compromises were made in fixing the sub during its midlife service and it was not sent to the manufacturer because Argentinas serious economic troubles -read default and fear of asset being seized by port authorities as it happened to our frigate - the one with sails - on its world tour.

Also a lot of dirty laundry being found on the local process of fixing the boat.

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