This thread is to compile ideas that we can hopefully put into action ourselves, as well as lobby our government to enact. I know this may be more of a mental exercise than anything with real teeth to it.

One idea is to block the Chinese from having educational visas to study in the US. Grad schools are filled with Chinese, and it seems to be a way for them to transfer research and capability from the US to China.

Gordon Chang is calling for the main western governments to seize or otherwise invalidate the Chinese owned T-Bills or foreign equivalents so that China no longer owns our debt. This seems an interesting exercise. Essentially, we all default on our obligations to the Chinese government. I’d love to know the economic ramifications if we were to do so.

The obvious step we can all take would be to reduce the amount of consumer goods we purchase from them.

We need to be mindful there are plenty of Americans of Chinese descent, who need to be treated like any other American citizen. There are good people in China as well, but we need to wage economic warfare against the government and government-controlled businesses which have been taking advantage of us for decades.

What would you do if you were in charge?

quote:

What would you do if you were in charge?

No idea - I am not knowledgeable enough in history, economics, foreign affairs, or international trade.

I know what I wouldn't do - wage war, institute sanctions, or otherwise put in place things that while meant to control the Chinese government, would ultimately harm the normal everyday working people of that country.

I know something about what our past involvement in other countries should have taught us.

I am reminded by History of Japan in the late 1930s.

Japan had begun its conquest of China in 1936 (Rape of Nanking). As part of the global (mostly American) effort to persuade a Japan to cease and desist, FDR instituted a trade boycott on Japan for raw goods (oil/ petroleum, iron ore/steel, etc.) necessary for its war machine. This in turn forced Japan to seek alliances with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany (Tripartite Pact of 1938) in order to begin planning further advances.

And as the old saying goes, “And the rest is History”.

Be careful of what you wish for, as you don’t have control over how the other side will react.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
I am reminded by History of Japan in the late 1930s.

Japan had begun its conquest of China in 1936 (Rape of Nanking). As part of the global (mostly American) effort to persuade a Japan to cease and desist, FDR instituted a trade boycott on Japan for raw goods (oil/ petroleum, iron ore/steel, etc.) necessary for its war machine. This in turn forced Japan to seek alliances with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany (Tripartite Pact of 1938) in order to begin planning further advances.

And as the old saying goes, “And the rest is History”.

Be careful of what you wish for, as you don’t have control over how the other side will react.

Add to this the (in their eyes) excessively punitive reparations for WWI against Germany allowed for the rise of Hitler and the drive toward WWII.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Boston:
invalidate the Chinese owned T-Bills

Probably be hard to sell T-Bills to anyone after doing that.

I'll be in China in a couple of days. A lot of the medical support that hospitals need right now is coming from China.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I'll be in China in a couple of days. A lot of the medical support that hospitals need right now is coming from China.

Stay safe and well

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Boston:
invalidate the Chinese owned T-Bills

Probably be hard to sell T-Bills to anyone after doing that.

Not paying your debt could be seen as an act of war. It can certainly get one in trouble:

I would like to see the U.S. businesses slowly begin to look to the Americas for investment in manufacturing and trade in general. I think this would solve many problems. It would provide many thousands of much needed jobs, and give the people in these countries a big reason to stay where they are. It would also save quite a bit in shipping time and I believe, lead to higher quality products at a reasonable price.

Wean ourselves from China over time. Bring industry back to the US. Encourage Mexico and Canada to ramp up industry.

I would like to see something explicitly compulsory and punitive against them. We're already at war with PRC - they are waging it against us whether we recognize it or not. They are in the long game here.

We should wean ourselves. Absolutely. But that's without regard to this event. And is much too soft a response to this in particular. I'd like to see something immediate, impactful and explicit. Treat the PRC government like the criminals against humanity that they are.

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Wean ourselves from China over time. Bring industry back to the US. Encourage Mexico and Canada to ramp up industry.

I agree, and would like to see all of Latin America included in the USMCA agreement.

Been giving this a lot of thought. Individually we can do very little. The federal government is the best tool to extract an outcome. Here's a start...

1) Congressional Bill # 1 - Here's a list of medications, PPE, and other medical equipment that a/o a date certain can no longer be built anywhere except in the continental US. No importation of these items will be allowed after the established date. A tax package will be designed to facilitate this change.

2) Congressional Bill # 2 - All goods (hey Tim Cook) built in China and imported into this country will have a tariff of 75% applied. To aide these companies in bringing home these businesses, a tax incentive plan will be developed and offered. Let's see how long the laws of simple economics take in moving a whole bunch of high dollar business back to the US.

3 ) International Agreement - Work with all first tier countries to build an international group tasked with establishing the damage done to each country by the Chinese virus, and then to take ownership of Chinese assets around the world to compensate for those damages. Reports I've seen note the total at somewhere near two trillion dollars. An international group would legitimize this effort far more than the US attempting it alone.

From a lot of what I've read, the Chinese economy is a house of cards and would not take too much effort for a sustained period by the world community to force an internal collapse. Implement just the three things I've noted above and watch the Chinese economy go bye bye and ours expand exponentially.

There will be plenty of time to discuss consequence once we are through this crisis. Now is not the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Now is not the time.

Sure it is. What the hell else do we have to do while sitting in our homes during this government ordered cluster[blank].

My grasp of macro-economics extends no further than balancing my checkbook, so I have no idea about the how, but I do have thoughts on the what.

We need to make it attractive to US/Western World businesses to manufacture their own products.

At the same time, and IMHO just as importantly, we need to make it attractive to the consumer to buy US/Western World products.

I think this should apply across the board for consumer products and I think it's absolutely critical that it apply to all medical products sooner rather than later.

Put a positive spin on it- Anything imported from china will be made following All of our restrictive environmental, safety, health and labor regulations. Level the playing field and remove any benefit from having it made in china.

I say leave them be. President Trumps tarriffs are working. Really, I work in an industry that use to import Chinese steel goods only. No one competed with them. Now it's Taiwan at @5% cheaper than China plus no worries that your stuff might be slow walked through the docks or additional tarrifs get slapped on mid-delivery.

Best part? Taiwan will take the profits and invest in American made weapons to defend against China. Win Win for the US. Trump nailed that one, huge. The tarrifs alone may make war avoidable.

As individual consumers, we all can make choices of course.

^^ As for steel, if it's so easy to produce and recycle then why aren't more small American buisnesses doing that here?

With all the red dots and scopes being made or assembled in China, maybe it behooves us to be a little more anal about knowing where they come from and not buying anything having anything to do with China. That plugs us directly into the feedback loop of all the various companies (even freakin' Meopta) that buy in bulk from Chinese producers, which means that someone somewhere (in China) will have a few very bad days.

Australia told them dont bother unloading their ships, nothing from China allowed into the country.
Its what I would do.