SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Passengers Furious After Hundreds of Flights Cancelled…Reported ‘Sick Out’ by Pilots and ATC Due to COVID [Vaccine] Mandate
Page 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 14 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Passengers Furious After Hundreds of Flights Cancelled…Reported ‘Sick Out’ by Pilots and ATC Due to COVID [Vaccine] Mandate Login/Join 
Member
posted Hide Post
How old was the pilot? To me it would be premature to blame the vaccination.
 
Posts: 10932 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
IDK. I am not saying anything about causation or about the credibility of the source. I’m just throwing it out there.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 20174 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
How old was the pilot? To me it would be premature to blame the vaccination.


Less than 65 years old.

That said, I find nothing about this potential incident on the Airline Pilots Forums so I'm not 100 positive that this even happened, let alone it could be pinpointed to the pilot having been recently vaccinated.
 
Posts: 919 | Registered: July 23, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
HAHA

Waiting on the autopsy.
 
Posts: 10932 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Expert308:
So how much of this "open time" comes up in a typical month? It seems like there must have been a LOT of it, all of a sudden, for it to have messed up schedules as much as it has. Regardless, kudos to the crews for standing up to Big Brother.


There's no way to give a meaningful answer as to "how much". It depends on so many factors: staffing model, time of year, external factors. Historically SWA has intentionally staffed on the lean side knowing that during busy periods (summer, holidays) pilots will make up the difference by picking up Open Time to pad their wallets. It's a mutually beneficial system, when it runs smoothly. However after the events over the last year, SWA suddenly went from overstaffed to severely understaffed when the vaccines rolled out and passengers came back in droves. All the airlines rapidly ramped up their flight schedules to meet the high demand but all lacked the staffing and infrastructure to handle it. This summer was brutal for flight crews - long days, multiple re-routes, lack of decent food options, and junior assignments where they add extra working days that you weren't scheduled for. Not to mention the attitudes of passengers frustrated with delays and mask mandates. The only thing that kept the summer from melting down more than it did was the hard work and dedication of crews and front-line support staff.

There are plenty of people out there picking up OT, then there are a lot of people who normally would but are not because of the junior assignment spree that's going on. At SWA they can JA you up to 2 days in addition to your scheduled trip, and they can do that twice a month. So if I want to "help out" and pick up a one day trip from OT, I have to be prepared to be gone 3 days in case they JA me. If I only have 3 or 4 days off between trips, which is typical, I'm just not taking that risk.

Also the FAA, while not outright lying is also not being completely honest. There was a combination of weather and staffing at Jacksonville Center on Friday which did cause delays in and out of Florida for a time. For reference, Jacksonville controls the enroute airspace from central Florida to as far north as South Carolina, west to Pensacola and some of the Gulf, and east to about 200 miles offshore into the Atlantic. This had a large impact on operations in Orlando which of course is a SWA hub so they had more disruptions than other airlines that operate there.

What we've seen over the last few years now, as the pilot's union has been pointing out, is that due to SWA's unique route structure which is largely point to point vs "hub and spoke" even minor disruptions can quickly cascade into major failures when aircraft and crews are delayed/canceled at outstations. Couple that with seriously lacking IT and it makes getting back on track an exercise in futility. Oh, there's also staffing issues ramp side for various reasons which means flights don't get turned on time and holding out for a gate after landing is common even when there are plenty available, there's no one there to park them.



Mongo only pawn in game of life...
 
Posts: 607 | Location: DFW | Registered: August 15, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
My cousin has a buddy that’s a SW pilot… this got forwarded.Big Grin




"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6274 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
awesome photo
 
Posts: 51371 | Location: Tucson Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
IDK. I am not saying anything about causation or about the credibility of the source. I’m just throwing it out there.


Do say something about the credibility of the source. It's bullshit.

Just like the four british airways pilots that were supposed to have died from the vaccine, or the five jet blue pilots that also didn't die from the vaccine.

Repeating bullshit stories to see what sticks is the fountain of conspiracy.

If it happened, by all means, repeat it, but the "fake news" everyone likes to crow about...this is it.

Pilots dying in flight, collapsing, emergency landings due to the vaccine...very dramatic. Don't let the truth stand in the way of a good rumor, right? Hollywood sends it's jealousy.

"Dr." Jane Ruby, incidentally, is the same one who spread rumors of five jet blue pilots dying of the vaccine. Ruby admitted she didn't know if they'd been vaccinated, or the cause of death, and it turned out none were related, and weren't even all pilots. The only thing in common was that they had the same employer.

Ruby, incidentally, isn't a medical doctor. She has a masters degree in international health economics and pharmacoeconomics. She's also a peddler of conspiracy theory, and it's what keeps her in the spotlight.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
It's not a child - can they not release the dead pilots name for verification. Not sure why she would label some of the crew as whistleblowers - they are potentially just reporting a factual event? (if that is what actually happened)
 
Posts: 4128 | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of erj_pilot
posted Hide Post
Asked a buddy at Delta if the story were (sadly) true...he hadn't heard anything from their company news. If NOT true, I would think Delta would want to refute the story on every network/news/social media outlet known to man. Just sayin'...



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 8311 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
OK… thanks for the info on her. If wrong sorry I posted it.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 20174 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
It's working, and the assholes are nervous and flat-out lying to cover up what everyone can see. We are not powerless, and the government is not all-powerful.

 
Posts: 95277 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Character, above all else
Picture of Tailhook 84
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by erj_pilot: What the SWA pilots are doing is NOT illegal...they feel compelled that they've had enough and desire to stop playing nice and doing the Company a favor. Not a damned thing wrong with that and is NOT considered an illegal job action. It usually sends a pretty good message to management that they've screwed the cat.

SWAPA (the Southwest Pilot Association) would do well to read up on ancient airline history from December 2000: Delta Air Lines successfully sued DALPA (the Delta Air Lines Pilot Association) pilot union for doing just this. The company argued in front of a federal judge that because of the long, established history of how much open time was always picked up in any given month, the sudden drop-off of pick-ups equated to an unauthorized job action. The pilot union lost the case, the ATL and CVG pilot groups rolled over in fear, and the picking up of White Slips (extra flight time at straight pay rates) resumed. So if the current situation continues at Southwest, it will not surprise me to see SWA threaten or do something similar to save their Thanksgiving and Christmas flight schedules.




"The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy."
 
Posts: 2313 | Location: West of Fort Worth | Registered: March 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of furlough
posted Hide Post
Ehhh..hate to wander into this...the crux is how organized it was.

If it was just a random weekend where guys said "Nah, not answering the phone call from skeds." not a lot they can do. But yes, the historical precedent of open time pickups have been used by companies as threats.

At my airline they count on guys picking up draft (skeds calls you) or volunteer trips (you say I'll take it). Both pay 150%. It has always been a good way to keep the airline lean and then flex during the busy times.

But if you are in negotiations (Section 6) and guys stopped suddenly taking draft trips when we are busy the company will say "Illegal job action" and they will win.

With The Covid my company has had draft and volunteer in every seat on every airframe for 18 months. Extensions get us to 200% and guys are making crazy money. I talked to a buddy of mine who is a domestic Captain and he said "Time for guys to stop picking up DFT/VOL".

I told him that ship has already sailed - it is rare that I fly with a guy on a straight-time trip. Guys drop their entire month and wait for the phone to ring. If we tried to stop it now the company lawyers would be on us that same day. And they would win.

No idea what the situation is at SWA but my buddy who is an LCA and was supposed to visit me this past weekend got shanghaid and extended and never showed up.

I'm sure the SWA lawyers are all ginned up and ready to go. Looking at message boards and chats to see if this was organized.




This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears above ground he is a protector.
Plato
 
Posts: 1636 | Location: Texas! | Registered: June 13, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post




~Alan

Acta Non Verba Trump Stands Alone...but he fights
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

"Surrender be damned. I have not yet begun to fight." ~JPJ

"I aim to misbehave."
 
Posts: 26916 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
probably a good thing
I don't have a cut
posted Hide Post
I am not a pilot or in a union but I would ask, if you were going to lose you're job if you didn't get vaccinated anyway, what else could they do to you if you didn't pick up extra flights in the meantime?
 
Posts: 2665 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: February 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Paten:
I am not a pilot or in a union but I would ask, if you were going to lose you're job if you didn't get vaccinated anyway, what else could they do to you if you didn't pick up extra flights in the meantime?


Pilots have some unique career metrics and pitfalls, from regular full medical exams (including EKG) to constant observation, line checks, proficiency checks, and so on; every singular event is a potential career ender. When a pilot seeks employment, the new employer must contact every other employer in the last ten years, and now the FAA stores records indefinitely, not only for an accounting of that pilot, but his employment records, training records, etc. This is a federal mandate as an act of congress. A singular failed checkride, a termination, and numerous other events, follow the pilot to every job. What can an employer do to a pilot, other than remove him from paid service?

Destroy his life. And his family's life. A pilot who has made it to a major airline has often put in a couple of decades getting there, and for many of us that was a lot of years living quite literally in poverty (the career isn't as lucrative as some believe, on the way up). Having arrived there, it's a small world. A career is one's life, and it's not something to be taken lightly. An employer can irreparably damage or destroy that, as can any misstep by the pilot.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
What can an employer do to a pilot, other than remove him from paid service?

Destroy his life. An employer can irreparably damage or destroy that, as can any misstep by the pilot.

The employer has already told them that their life will be destroyed if they refuse to be injected with an experimental medication.
What more is there to lose?
They can't exactly go to another airline if they are all doing the same thing.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 20174 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
Southwest CEO backs down, will not fire employees who refuse to get vaxxed
By Thomas Lifson

Chalk this up as a major victory for personal autonomy and liberty! Even while refusing to admit that resistance to vaccination had anything to do with the massive disruption to operations that occurred last weekend, Gary Kelly, CEO of Southwest Airlines, backed off from earlier policy and announced that employees who refuse to receive COVID gene therapy "vaccines" will not be terminated.

Debra Heine reports at American Greatness:

During an interview with ABC News Tuesday, Gary Kelly, the CEO of Southwest Airlines, stated that no employees will be fired over the company's vaccine mandate. However, the airline announced on October 4 that all 56,000 U.S. Southwest employees needed to get vaccinated against COVID-19 by November 24, or face termination.

The CEO also told ABC's George Stephanopoulos that there was "no evidence" that any type of demonstration against the mandate had contributed to the massive service disruptions over the holiday weekend. Over 2,000 Southwest flights were cancelled, leaving tens of thousands of passengers stranded.

Technically speaking, Kelly is correct: there is no evidence because even if pilots (and other employees) were calling in sick or using vacation time, or refusing overtime, they would not say so — i.e., provide "evidence" — because doing so would amount to a confession of violating the law with an illegal work stoppage. So, yes, there is no evidence, but Kelly's reversal of policy, backing away from termination for failure to vax, is hard to explain otherwise. And it is a major reversal:

Top Articles By American Thinker

Biden is Brewing a National Crisis

The CEO told employees last week that the airline had no choice but to comply with the regime's vaccine mandate.

"Southwest Airlines is a federal contractor and we have no viable choice but to comply with the U.S. government mandate for employees to be vaccinated, and — like other airlines — we're taking steps to comply," Kelly said.

As Debra Heine points out, Southwest and every other private employer has an out:

An executive order was issued last month requiring all federal employees to get vaccinated, but no executive order, or federal regulation has yet been issued for private companies. Joe Biden on September 9 unveiled his draconian plan to force all private businesses with more than 100 employees to make their workers get inoculated with the experimental COVID vaccines, or face weekly testing. A month later, no official guidance on the alleged mandate has been issued by the White House, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), or the Department of Labor.

Here is a three-plus-minute video of the interview:



Kelly's recitation of aggravating factors causing the cancelation is correct. Keeping a tightly scheduled airline (Southwest has very quick "turnaround times" — the time between landing and taking off for the next flight) running smoothly is a challenge at all times. On a holiday weekend with heavy travel, it is all the more intricate. But for that very reason, employees not showing up, or refusing overtime, or otherwise giving less than 100% can have a cascading effect on operations. That is what happened to Southwest (but not to its competitors) last weekend.

Hundreds of employees have been fired at United Airlines, and countless more people at other companies have lost their livelihoods, and in many cases their health insurance and unemployment benefits, for refusing to submit to having their bodies injected with a gene-altering substance that has not undergone the years of testing normally required to understand the long-term side-effects.

As labor shortages bedevil the airline industry and many other sectors, especially in transportation, companies that respect liberty, as Southwest now does, have the opportunity to recruit skilled and experienced employees whose former bosses caved in to the intimidation that the Biden regime blustered about.

In more good news for liberty, Fox News reports:

A federal judge in New York granted a preliminary injunction Tuesday in favor of 17 health care workers applying for religious exemptions to the state's COVID-19 mandate.

U.S. District Judge David Hurd's injunction, which is effective statewide, temporarily bars New York State from forcing employers to fire medical workers seeking a religious exemption.

"The question presented by this case is not whether plaintiffs and other individuals are entitled to a religious exemption from the State's workplace vaccination requirement," Hurd wrote.

"Instead, the question is whether the State's summary imposition of [the mandate] conflicts with plaintiffs' and other individuals' federally protected right to seek a religious accommodation from their individual employers," he continued, adding, "The answer to this question is clearly yes."

Needless to say, this ruling will be appealed, and no doubt other federal judges will issue conflicting rulings, meaning that ultimately, the Supreme Court must decide the issue. But that normally takes years. In the meantime, people will lose their jobs or submit to unwanted medications unless more restraining orders are issued and stand up on appeal.

https://www.americanthinker.co...e_to_get_vaxxed.html



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 20174 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The dirtbag CEO is just buying time until they figure out a solution. Trust me - they are not giving up that easy. I am sure there are Government consultants enroute to Dallas right now to guide SWA leadership through this.
 
Posts: 4128 | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 14  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Passengers Furious After Hundreds of Flights Cancelled…Reported ‘Sick Out’ by Pilots and ATC Due to COVID [Vaccine] Mandate

© SIGforum 2021