quote:

Of course they do, but you still miss the point. Doctors don't have to have a physical every 6 months by a government (FAA) sanctioned AME (Aero Medical Examiner) just to keep their job. That is EVERY 6 months (once over age 40, annually until then).

^^^^^^^^^^^
Does it include a psychological evaluation??

I work for an aerospace defense contractor, a big one. I've been 100% remote (work from home) since 2015. I received the dreaded email today. I must complete the final vaccine dose by Nov 24, or I'll lose my job. It looks like a second Pfizer shot is needed 21 days after the first, and 28 days for Moderna. Looking at the calendar, I'll have to choose a shot in the next 2 weeks so I can get the second one in time.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I just don't think it's needed based on my age and other factors. No one in my family has had Covid, immediate or extended, so we don't have natural immunity, although I don't think that matters for the purposes of the "Executive Order".

I've been on the fence about getting it, but the choice has been mine.

I guess I could let them fire me, but I am not so sure that is the best choice given my age (48), and I have a family I need to support (wife and 2 young boys).

What really pisses me off is I work from home. There's no chance I'll infect anyone I work with, contractors, etc...

My body, my choice, right?

So much for Freewill.

What is funny is the governments own infomercial ends with "... and make an informed decision"

Accept that is not allowed is it? More and more in either direction. I have friends mad at me for getting the vaccine, and friends who are made because I think you should be allowed to "make an informed decision".

I am high risk for the lung infection version, yes, you live but you are on oxygen for the rest of your life. So I talked with my doctor (surprisingly candid) and we settled on the Moderna as the best choice for me.
It was my informed decision.

I will point out that the local UVA hospital chain has for years required the flu vaccine for all employees. people do it because they want to work there. That is part of business in a free society, we all make choices, some organizations suck. My nephew quit his job as a waiter because they had to share tips (two free loaders would only wait on one table at a time but expect a full share). He is much happier at his freedom loving restaurant

so, F Biden and his bullshit mandates. F the politics, the idiots with TDS that have turned this into a circus of political crap. I feel like society as a whole is being manipulated and controlled.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Of course they do, but you still miss the point. Doctors don't have to have a physical every 6 months by a government (FAA) sanctioned AME (Aero Medical Examiner) just to keep their job. That is EVERY 6 months (once over age 40, annually until then).

^^^^^^^^^^^
Does it include a psychological evaluation??

I'm still reading up to catch all the 10 pages...so I apologize if I've missed a point on a previous page.

To answer the question I see...yes, and no, and "it depends". There are certain AME's you go to that you know will pass you. It's more difficult to get passed the EKG requirement, but it happens. Psychological questions and components are very much a part of every FAA medical following 9/11 and the news about drunk pilots a few years back. But remember this...more than one terrorist on 9/11 had a 3rd class medical by an FAA approved AME. The FAA is extremely political. I know pilots who go to dermatologists to get the medicals performed because he won't ask or pick up on potential failure points in the exam. The system does get worked a bit...and IMO, SHOULD, because it's over the top, ridiculous, and 70-80% of the pilots I know (and I know a lot of them) lie in some part on their FAA medical examination renewal. The requirements are ridiculous, and not going in the right direction. The FAA is creating a culture where they are not taken serious, because they are a joke. I've been working hand in hand with the FAA on the 91, 135, and 121 side as a pilot and as mechanic, for 25 years. It goes in waves. Stupid, less stupid, more stupid, then not stupid enough, and back to stupid again.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I work for an aerospace defense contractor, a big one. I've been 100% remote (work from home) since 2015. I received the dreaded email today. I must complete the final vaccine dose by Nov 24, or I'll lose my job. It looks like a second Pfizer shot is needed 21 days after the first, and 28 days for Moderna. Looking at the calendar, I'll have to choose a shot in the next 2 weeks so I can get the second one in time.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I just don't think it's needed based on my age and other factors. No one in my family has had Covid, immediate or extended, so we don't have natural immunity, although I don't think that matters for the purposes of the "Executive Order".

I've been on the fence about getting it, but the choice has been mine.

I guess I could let them fire me, but I am not so sure that is the best choice given my age (48), and I have a family I need to support (wife and 2 young boys).

What really pisses me off is I work from home. There's no chance I'll infect anyone I work with, contractors, etc...

My body, my choice, right?

So much for Freewill.

For some, the price of freedom is heavy. I won't chastise you, either way, IMO, it IS your choice. I hope you'll choose freedom, and I hope you'll get rewarded or find something better for it...but "hope" isn't a plan. Life isn't fair, and freedom isn't free. Good luck.

quote:

I've been working hand in hand with the FAA on the 91, 135, and 121 side as a pilot and as mechanic, for 25 years. It goes in waves. Stupid, less stupid, more stupid, then not stupid enough, and back to stupid again.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for your candid response. I figured pilots were not spending a week at Mayo for IME.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:... Life isn't fair, and freedom isn't free....

So many simply fail to grasp this low hanging fruit.

"Life sucks - get a fucking helmet!"
-Denis Leary

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Of course they do, but you still miss the point. Doctors don't have to have a physical every 6 months by a government (FAA) sanctioned AME (Aero Medical Examiner) just to keep their job. That is EVERY 6 months (once over age 40, annually until then).

^^^^^^^^^^^
Does it include a psychological evaluation??

No it does not.

back to the topic at hand, has anyone heard any more rumblings about flight delays or cancellations

not hearing or seeing much and I really hoped this was not a one time event but rather a sustained effort to inflict as much pain as possible to start to resolve the problem

AKSuperDually, with due respect, but I have to disagree with your description of the FAA medical process. And you must know that a commercial airline pilot for Part 121 (ie any major airline like SWA, AA, DL, UA and their feeders, UPS, FDX) are required to hold a Class 1 FAA medical certificate. Getting a Class III is not nearly as steep a hurdle to pass but doesn't do a SWA pilot any good.

Yes we try to find an AME who won't be too strict, but they have their licenses on the line too and won't pass you if you don't qualify. I don't offer any extra information about my medical conditions and he doesn't normally ask. But if you don't meet the requirements you aren't going to pass.

Lying or omitting info on the medical application is a federal offense, much like filling out the 4473.

Southwest Blames Cancellations On Worker Shortage, Union Denies 'Sick-Out' Over Vaccine Mandate

https://www.zerohedge.com/covi...great-rebellion-over

Update (1800ET): Southwest Airlines has had another terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day - as a shortage of workers combined with an air traffic control interruption to bring the total number of canceled flights to nearly 3,100 in four days.

"Crews were struggling to move and you end up in short order with aircraft and crews in the wrong spot," said EVP Bob Jordan, adding "It’s really difficult to repair and put those things back together."

Speculation over the actual cause of the cancellations has been rampant on social media - with some pilots refuting claims that they were staging a sickout over vaccination mandates, while COPO Mike Van de Ven told employees on Sunday night that it needs to build more of a "staffing cushion" to deal with unexpected disruptions.

On Monday, Southwest was once again at the top of the cancellation list, according to FlightAware - which lists 356 cancellations as of this writing (23% of the day's 1,539 total cancellations), prompting Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) to tweet: "As a loyal Southwest customer who has been flying safely throughout the pandemic and is utterly opposed to vaccine mandates, I’m asking, stop the madness before more damage is done."

Former US Senator Dr. Ron Paul may be on to something in a Monday op-ed via the Ron Paul Institute, when he calls it a rebellion (emphasis ours)

The incredible cruelty and folly of forced vaccines finally came home to roost. The vaccine mandate backlash has been bubbling just under the surface, but now it has spilled out into the open, threatening to completely derail an already crumbling economy and to obliterate a deeply unpopular US President and Administration.

Seemingly out of nowhere what appears to be a Southwest Airlines rebellion has taken flight this weekend. According to media reports, scores of pilots and other Southwest employees have coordinated the taking of “sick days” to use them up in advance of a Southwest Airlines mandate to get the jab or lose the job. Over Saturday and Sunday more than 2,000 flights have been cancelled, with airports experiencing full-on mayhem.

The Southwest Airlines Pilots Association is suing the airline over the imposed vaccine mandate, bolstering the claim that there is a “sick out” underway among angry Southwest pilots.

The mainstream media is doing its best to keep a lid on the expanding rebellion against the vaccine mandates, and Southwest Airlines itself is blaming the cancellations on bad weather and a lack of air traffic controllers. However, the weather problems that Southwest claims to be experiencing seem unique to that carrier: no other airline (thus far) is reporting such weather-related cancellations. And FAA spokesperson Steve Kulm told USA Today that “No FAA air traffic staffing shortages have been reported since Friday."

Will other pilots, such as at American Airlines, follow suit? Rumors are circling that this is only the beginning.

Over the past few weeks, thousands of nurses, medical workers, and first responders have either quit or been fired for refusing to receive a medical treatment they do not want or need. The “nursing shortage” that Democrat politicians and the mainstream media had been blaming on “rising Covid cases” has been in reality a man-made disaster of historic proportions. The nursing crisis is not caused by “Covid” – cases have been in decline in the US for weeks. It is caused by the firing of medical personnel who refuse to take the experimental Covid shots.

The stupidity of adopting a policy of firing healthcare workers while at the same time claiming that there is a raging pandemic gripping the country has not been lost on Americans. President Biden’s polling numbers have unsurprisingly been in freefall, with major Democrat candidates like Virginia's Terry McAuliffe openly complaining that the deeply unpopular Biden is threatening him in a tight race for governor.

While Biden Administration lackeys like Fauci are telling Americans they can’t celebrate Christmas again this year, more and more of America is finished with this “public health” terrorism. Here in Texas, a hundred thousand unmasked Texas A&M fans poured onto the football field on Saturday after a last minute surprise victory over Alabama. In Texas and elsewhere, the Administration is losing the fear factor.

History may record this weekend as the turning point against the Biden Administration’s Covid tyranny. From nurses to pilots to truckers to even Amtrak workers, it appears that America is standing up and saying “enough!” Every one of our fellow citizens standing up on principle to oppose tyranny – facing the loss of their jobs and security – is owed a debt of gratitude by all who love liberty. Let’s hope that the peaceful rebellion continues to grow!

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
and freedom isn't free.

Nope. It costs a buck O' five.



(Sorry, guys. Couldn't resist.)

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
back to the topic at hand, has anyone heard any more rumblings about flight delays or cancellations

not hearing or seeing much and I really hoped this was not a one time event but rather a sustained effort to inflict as much pain as possible to start to resolve the problem

I haven't seen anything other than the Southwest deal.
I'm like you and hope that others follow suit to end this madness.
I can also see some giving in and getting the vaccine. I harbor no ill will towards those that do, it's their decision and they're probably doing what's in their best interest.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigfan Roy:
AKSuperDually, with due respect, but I have to disagree with your description of the FAA medical process. And you must know that a commercial airline pilot for Part 121 (ie any major airline like SWA, AA, DL, UA and their feeders, UPS, FDX) are required to hold a Class 1 FAA medical certificate. Getting a Class III is not nearly as steep a hurdle to pass but doesn't do a SWA pilot any good.

Yes we try to find an AME who won't be too strict, but they have their licenses on the line too and won't pass you if you don't qualify. I don't offer any extra information about my medical conditions and he doesn't normally ask. But if you don't meet the requirements you aren't going to pass.

Lying or omitting info on the medical application is a federal offense, much like filling out the 4473.

My father is an AME, does 1st through 3rd, and DOT. That certainly does not make me the expert.

I've very aware that 121 requires the class 1. I've also served in the military with a bunch of 121 stick operators. In the ANG, better than 80% of our C17/C130 pilots and FE's were also flying airlines as their primary job. Needless to say, the scuttlebutt and complaining of the industry is a hot topic on an 8-9 hour oceanic flight back and forth from SWA.

My example of the dermatologist is a personal anecdote I can't expand on, my experience in the conversations mentioned in context above, was the confirmation.

You are 100% correct about the forms.

An extreme example comes to mind, I know of 2 121 Pilots whose careers were ended by medical decisions out of their control. One was psychological (a co-worker/veterna friend lost his wife to cancer with school aged children and was having a difficult time, AME grounded him on a renewal, lost his airline job which then made everything in his life significantly worse), the other was a legitimate medical issue many people know about (not a personal friend, but a very public situation ---sailing/flying/RV doodles, Bobby). It's a career where everything can be lost in an instant, more so than most others.

Got ADHD? Good luck with a medical. Got sleep apnea? Good luck with a medical. High blood sugar/pre-diabetic? One bad call by a nurse can end your career. Hay fever allergies? Take the wrong medication, and don't document it on that renewal form...and you might lose your medical, end your career. Pilots lie on that form, the FAA knows it...and they perpetuate it with their stupidity. Pilots avoid getting mental help, because it will end their career.

They aren't the only ones, they aren't special children of the world...but my point is that the FAA pulls political bullshit games and continues to make the FAA a freaking joke that cries wolf too often.

Great post and more reasons why its different for a pilot than it is for almost any other profession in terms of having to subject themselves to that government process every 6 months. Lots to lose every time you go in there to see that AME and fill out the form.

Now, isn't SWA based in Dallas?

Re the discussion about medical certification for flying: I did not fly Part 121 (airline), I did fly corporate stuff. A couple of local companies that owned airplanes but did not use them frequently enough to justify pilots as full-time employees, so they kept a list of a few pilots who where qualified in their airplanes, to be called for trips as required.

It was a great "by the day" gig for me, sometimes a relatively short trip, bring a good book and hang out in the pilot's lounge at the FBO while the boss had his meetings, then back home that afternoon, or sometimes a weekend at an upscale place in The Bahamas, paid for each day, and all lodging, meals, and incidentals picked up by the company.

Life was good. Then, prostate cancer. FAA denied my medical certificate renewal, without which I can legally fly*. I asked, "Was there ever a case, ONE case, of a pilot being incapacitated in the air due to prostate cancer?"

"No, but we're the FAA and we can do whatever the fuck we want to do, so don't try to use that logic stuff with us."

No more flying for me.

---

*NOTE: Well, I can fly. Sort of. The convoluted regs say that although I do need a medical certificate to act as PIC (Pilot In Command), I do not need a medical to exercise the privileges of my Flight Instructor certificate. So, if somebody who is legal to act as PIC for a flight comes to me for instruction, yes, I can do that, legally. Let's say that somebody needs a Flight Review, generally required every two years for all pilots. If you come to me the day before your current review expires, I can do that because you are legal to act as PIC; we do the review and you're good for another two years. If you come to me the day after your review expires, I can't help you. Nobody said that the rules have to make sense.

Yes they are. But does this apply ("...government entities and certain others...") to them (given the timing it most likely does) and importantly, will they honor it.

Will SWA claim since they are an airline and subject to FAA regulation that this doesnt apply to them?

NAL and I understand that the FAA 'Federal Aviation Authority (“FAA”), a national agency within the DOT, with power to regulate all aspects of US civil aviation' but does that also include HR / personnel management?

quote:

Originally posted by tigereye313:
Now, isn't SWA based in Dallas?

Looks like if they fire enough workers, they can just soak up bailout money.

Not a PEEP from the union. Oh that's right, they donate a huge percentage of the dues to democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigfan Roy:
Great post and more reasons why its different for a pilot than it is for almost any other profession in terms of having to subject themselves to that government process every 6 months. Lots to lose every time you go in there to see that AME and fill out the form.

We all have the same rights. Doesn’t matter your job, religion, gender or skin color.