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Passengers Furious After Hundreds of Flights Cancelled…Reported ‘Sick Out’ by Pilots and ATC Due to COVID [Vaccine] Mandate Login/Join 
A Grateful American
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:...

Destroy his life. And his family's life. A pilot who has made it to a major airline has often put in a couple of decades getting there, and for many of us that was a lot of years living quite literally in poverty (the career isn't as lucrative as some believe, on the way up). Having arrived there, it's a small world. A career is one's life, and it's not something to be taken lightly. An employer can irreparably damage or destroy that, as can any misstep by the pilot.


What a reward for giving all you have, and then realizing this is what they reduce you to.

I realized long ago, that in the military, I was truly valued, by the positions I held, and the assignments that were offered to me.

Never did I worry that the "company" wanted to kill me, but did keep there end of the deal, taking care of my and my families needs.

Our belongings were moved and stored to each change of station, on time and without damage, expenses I incurred were reimbursed without delay, medical and dental were as good if not better than anything ever encountered since leaving the military.

Worked in the private sector for 26 years, and it was always a threat of this, or a fight for that.

And appears that in civil aviation career it is even a greater group of pirates.

Sad, that those that endure such life are often proud of eating shit sandwiches and continually worrying that almost all their mates would as soon cut their throat for the reminder of that sandwich, with no real concern.

And in every industry and institution, people are going to take the red pill and wake up to the Matrix.

And folks better be prepared to deal with the stopping of the machine.

The Harbor will be full of tea.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm gonna go to the Alamo
 
Posts: 41860 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I didn't say that a company wants to do this; the question was asked, what more could a company do. I answered regarding the reality of the effects.

Don't confuse the mirror-image opposite world of the military, and the airlines or commercial aviation. One is consumes money, the other must produce it. There's a reason that the military doesn't depend on unions for protection, and why they're essential in the private sector in certain settings; both to the career safety of the crew, and to the safety of the general public.

Those who "endure" their career are not proud to "eat shit sandwiches." But it does take one hell of a lot to make it to the point in a career at which one is actually making a decent living, and it takes a lot to keep it.

Don't confuse the reality of the job, with an artificial world in which every person is a pirate, and the company is out to destroy the individual. That's not the case. The simple fact is that one screw up can have lifelong ramifications. A pilot busts an altitude, the FAA investigates, a penalty is had, and the record of that stays with the pilot for a long, long time. With a hundred thousand other choices, a future employer will choose the pilot with the blemish, last, and there are hundreds of thousands of opportunities for such blemishes. His records will follow him, and now with current law, every company must submit his training records and employee history to the FAA to go into a data base, where every other employer can see it...for life. That's the reality. That's not dog eat dog, and it's not about pirates and snake pits. Just the reality of the job.

This isn't a machine that needs stopping. It's a worthwhile career. The military took care of your family; an airline, corporate flight department, or other civil aviation position won't. It's up to you to show up to work prepared and do our job and it's up to you to take care of your family.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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quote:
This isn't a machine that needs stopping. It's a worthwhile career.

You could say that about our entire economy and many people would say that about their own careers.
But... some brave pilots are saying "No, to tyranny!" So are some brave doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists, truckers, teachers, sheriffs, and even a few brave lawyers.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 20174 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
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I've worked 50 years, so nearly twice the time I served in the military. I was sole breadwinner for most of that time, so I understand taking care of my family and owning 5 different companies, how to get my ass up every day.

The difference in the comparison in reply to your statement, was that while I was expected to never take my eye off the ball, the military honored its role for watching my back and taking up the slack for family, so I could do my part without concern. Never implied it was a mirror, it is as far as east is to west.

My reply was not to you nor about you, it was only taking what you said as a fact presented.

Your words (what I quoted) painted a pretty bleak picture, and then you come back and say that it isn't and redirect. I was specific about that, and replied my opinion to that.

I was talking about the entire "cooperate machine" that has become an evil taskmaster, not "the company" (specific to airline/aviation industry).




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm gonna go to the Alamo
 
Posts: 41860 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
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Photo taken by an Alaska Airlines employee in Anchorage.



~Alan

Acta Non Verba Trump Stands Alone...but he fights
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

"Surrender be damned. I have not yet begun to fight." ~JPJ

"I aim to misbehave."
 
Posts: 26916 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Delta refutes false allegation that pilot died of covid vaccine, causing emergency in which First Officer landed the airplane. The event didn't happen.

https://news.delta.com/delta-c...employee-allegations

https://keyt.com/news/2021/10/...ilot-died-in-flight/

quote:
Delta Air Lines disputed a viral rumor
By Chris Isidore, CNN Business

Delta Air Lines took the unusual step of publicly disputing a viral rumor spread by an anti-vax podcast, which claimed one of Delta’s pilots recently died mid-flight days after getting a vaccine.

Delta said no such thing happened. Mid-flight deaths are rare and airlines are legally required to report them publicly. The allegation was aired Monday on “The Stew Peters Show” podcast.

“All of these allegations are false,” said Delta. “The pandemic has been an incredibly tragic time for many, and our hearts go out to the hundreds of thousands of families of those who have passed away from the horrific virus.”

The story came from Peters’ podcast guest, Jane Ruby, who said she had been told about it by three “whistleblowers directly related to Delta Air Lines,” one of whom she said was a flight attendant on the flight.

She said that the co-pilot on the flight was safely able to land the plane, and that the flight had occurred within the previous 10 days. She also said the people shared with her a number of stories about other vaccinated Delta staff’s deaths and health problems.

On the show, Peters identified Ruby as a doctor, but her website describes her as a “pharmaceutical drug development expert,” and “health economist and New Right political pundit.”

The Twitter accounts for both Ruby and Peters’ show have been suspended for spreading misinformation. The podcast is still available online, though. Among its sponsors is “My Pillow,” which is run by conspiracy theory purveyor Mike Lindell.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
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quote:
From the CNN Business article in guppy's post, above:

"She said that the co-pilot on the flight was safely able to land the plane"
Holy drama queen, Batman! It is absolutely routine for the "co-pilot" to land the airplane. S/he would not be sitting in that seat if not qualified to do that.



Any cocktail can be a shrimp cocktail if you put your mind to it, and if you carry lots of loose shrimp in your pocket.

הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 25801 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
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My daily offer from Costco has a SouthWest gift card: A $500.00 card for only $449.99. That's a pretty good price for a card that can be used on cancelled flights. Wink




Any cocktail can be a shrimp cocktail if you put your mind to it, and if you carry lots of loose shrimp in your pocket.

הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 25801 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
From the CNN Business article in guppy's post, above:

"She said that the co-pilot on the flight was safely able to land the plane"
Holy drama queen, Batman! It is absolutely routine for the "co-pilot" to land the airplane. S/he would not be sitting in that seat if not qualified to do that.


While it is true that the first officer is type rated and qualified to land the airplane, and does every other leg, as a rule, there's a big difference between operating a two-pilot aircraft with two pilots, or with one dead pilot.

In this case, it's irrelevant, because this never happened: it's fake news from the conspiracy establishment; they created a non-existent event to blame on vaccines.

It's quite different to land the airplane from the right seat, as opposed to landing it from the right seat with the other pilot dead, and collapsed across the flight controls. Or collapsing and acting irrationally, etc. In a single pilot light airplane, we fly single pilot. A large airplane is more complicated by nature, but even the physical separation of controls (can everything be reached?) alters the dynamic. One pilot strictly flies, the other pilot does everything else.

Unless, of course, he's dead. In this case, the rumors of his death were greatly exaggerated.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
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In the Good Old Days, "Cockpit Resource Management" consisted of the Captain saying, "Just sit there. Don't touch anything."



Any cocktail can be a shrimp cocktail if you put your mind to it, and if you carry lots of loose shrimp in your pocket.

הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 25801 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Fortunately, those days are long gone.

That said, I've flown with a number of first officers, with whom it may as well be a single-pilot cockpit. With some of them, the work load is substantially higher.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Team Apathy
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Fortunately, those days are long gone.

That said, I've flown with a number of first officers, with whom it may as well be a single-pilot cockpit. With some of them, the work load is substantially higher.


Just out of curiosity, does the Captain have any input on who they fly with, or is it up to a scheduler somewhere?
 
Posts: 5694 | Location: Modesto, CA | Registered: January 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Depends on the operation. Some operators have "no fly lists" in which crew cite whom they won't fly with. Some companies don't have such a list. In many cases, one doesn't know who one flies with in advance, and in many cases, one doesn't know the other person, even if the name is available.

It's not just first officers. I worked for an operator that did not have a no-fly list, and there was a captain there with whom I refused to fly, as he wasn't safe. I was assigned with him, said no, and when assigned again, turned in a resignation. The captain was demoted to First Officer shortly thereafter.

Most crew are professional, and responsible. Not all. The vetting process is relentless, and life-long, and yet, there are those who still slip through.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Big corporations are going to have to change and I doubt they can. They promoted backstabbers and crafted numbers games to gain promotions and raises which were basically fraud. Workers responded by becoming game players or retiring. What was the rule - 70 percent doing the workload and 30 percent hanging around. Well, a large portion of that 70 percent retired or quit. New hires won't play the game and delay gratification. Of course I have been out for 10 years and I know it became worse after I left
 
Posts: 894 | Registered: November 07, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
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Looks like Southwest and American have backed off and adopted a more reasonable vaccine mandate policy.

[Note: hyperlinks at linked article]

--------------------------------------------------
Southwest Airlines reverses course and says it won't put unvaccinated employees on unpaid leave if they're seeking an exemption

Taylor Rains
Oct. 20 2021 03:30 IST

• Southwest Airlines said it will not put unvaccinated workers with a pending exemption on unpaid leave come December.

• The company said employees can continue working if they follow COVID-safety policies until their request is reviewed.


Southwest Airlines is abandoning its plan to put unvaccinated workers with a pending exemption on unpaid leave this December.

Southwest told employees on Tuesday that those who choose not to get vaccinated due to a medical or religious exemption will not be forced to take unpaid leave come December 8, reported CNBC. The December deadline was imposed by President Joe Biden when he enacted his federal vaccine mandate requiring federal contractors' employees to be vaccinated.

In a letter to employees seen by CNBC, Southwest senior vice president of operations and hospitality Steve Goldberg and vice president and chief people officer Julie Weber said workers whose medical or religious exemption was not reviewed by the December 8 deadline would not be put on unpaid leave. To continue working, these employees must agree to follow mask and social distancing policies until their exemption request is reviewed.

Southwest did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment.

Southwest is not the only carrier loosening its vaccine requirements. American Airlines' flight attendant union, The Association of Professional Flight Attendants, told its members on Monday that those without the COVID-19 vaccine or an exemption will not be automatically separated from the company after the deadline to be inoculated, which for American employees is November 24.

"For those flight attendants who remain unvaccinated and do not receive an accommodation, you will not be automatically removed from service or terminated from employment on the deadline for compliance," the Association of Professional Flight Attendants said in an October 18 letter to members. "Our contract provides for a process that must be followed before anyone can be terminated."

On October 1, American Airlines said unvaccinated employees would not be able to work at American after the company's November 24 deadline, and the company told Insider on Monday that it was still figuring out the exemption process, though employees are still required to show proof of vaccination by the deadline. However, American did not say whether workers who are hesitant to get the shot by either the company's deadline or Biden's deadline will be terminated or not.

While both Southwest and American have taken steps to reassure worker job security, United Airlines has stood firm in its decision to require all employees without an approved exemption to either be vaccinated or be fired. However, a Texas federal judge recently forced United to temporarily halt its plan of putting unvaccinated workers seeking medical or religious accommodation on unpaid leave. The ruling came after six United employees filed a lawsuit claiming the company's strict vaccine mandate was discriminatory and not a reasonable accommodation.
 
Posts: 5982 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dances With
Tornados
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quote:
vice president and chief people officer Julie Weber



Say what? WTF is a chief people officer?

Has Personnel gone human resources gone woke or whatever now a people officer?

Gimme a break!
.
.
 
Posts: 10107 | Registered: October 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Spread the Disease
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I caught this last Monday when I was supposed to fly to SLC for a work meeting in Park City, UT. I got a text from Southwest 3 hours before my flight was to depart that it was CANCELLED.

SONOFABITCH.

I was literally getting dressed to head to the airport. Since I was supposed to give a presentation at the meeting AND it's the best meeting I have all year, every year, I was NOT going to miss it. I hopped into my truck and drove- made it in under 9 hours.

Southwest gave me a credit for my flight, plus a $100 travel voucher, plus 10,000 Southwest points. Eh, I do have a SW credit card, so it wasn't ALL bad.


________________________________________

-- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. --
 
Posts: 15924 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: October 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
34" Scale 5-String
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quote:
Originally posted by bald1:
<<snip>>
Had I known back in the early summer what I know now, I would NOT have gotten the Moderna series. @#$%^ the mRNA spike proteins!

Same here. I got mine back in the spring following pressure from my wife, and well before I discovered what I now know about it. I strongly regret having gotten it, and will NOT be getting any "booster" shots! Mine was also Moderna; thankfully no negative effects... so far!


Bill R.
North Alabama
 
Posts: 3888 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: December 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by OKCGene:
quote:
vice president and chief people officer Julie Weber



Say what? WTF is a chief people officer?

Has Personnel gone human resources gone woke or whatever now a people officer?

Gimme a break!
.
.


SWA hasn't "gone woke." SWA has been using that term for over two decades.
 
Posts: 6260 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by bronicabill:
quote:
Originally posted by bald1:
<<snip>>
Had I known back in the early summer what I know now, I would NOT have gotten the Moderna series. @#$%^ the mRNA spike proteins!

Same here. I got mine back in the spring following pressure from my wife, and well before I discovered what I now know about it.

Exactly why many of us shunned the stuff: Experimental "vacciness" with unknown short- and long-term effects.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21134 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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