JP strikes again.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eUsF8FKB25U

A question for our forum commercial airline pilots; I understand the dangers associated with a distracted flight crew and professional pilots pride themselves on working to avoid distractions on the flight deck... but has there ever been an instance when a formal warning has been issued not to discuss a specific topic?


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‘Dangerous Situations’: Unions Warn Pilots To Focus On Flying, Not Federal Vaccine Mandate

Pilots at American and Southwest airlines are being warned to keep vaccine mandate issues out of the cockpit due to potential flight safety concerns.

The Allied Pilots Association, which represents American’s 14,000 pilots, sent a memo to members Tuesday about an increase in distractions due to looming deadlines to get vaccinated and sharply divided views on the topic.

The subject line: “Distractions cannot affect safety.”

“We are seeing distractions in the flight deck that can create dangerous situations,” the memo from the union’s safety committee said.

The number of pilots self-reporting vaccine mandate talk or concerns to the Federal Aviation Administration as a distraction on the job has spiked, union spokesman Dennis Tajer said.

Tajer called the increase in reports to the FAA’s Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP) a “big, big deal.” He likens the program to a “see something, say something” report.

“It doesn’t mean an incident happened,” he said.

But it does mean pilots voluntarily reported some level of preoccupation with vaccine mandates — whether for, against or indifferent — as a distraction, he said. Pilots must attach their names to the reports, which are designed to be informative, not punitive, he said.

The union says another flight feedback system, using input from inflight auditors under a separate program, also confirms the increase in distractions.

Some pilot distractions are expected
Tajer said some distractions are to be expected during this “stressful” time as some pilots fear losing their jobs soon if they don’t get vaccinated. But he said it’s essential that pilots put those concerns aside and focus on their jobs.

“It’s not a scolding message, it’s a reminder message,” he said. “I hear you, I hear you on that (vaccine mandates), but let’s get back to the (flight) checklist.”

The Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA) sent a similar alert to its pilots on Oct. 9, amid the airline’s meltdown that some blamed on a pilot walkout over vaccine issues. The company and the union vehemently denied that was the cause but that didn’t stop those who oppose vaccine mandates, including Sen. Ted Cruz, from cheering on the pilots all over social media.

The memo to Southwest pilots acknowledged increased fatigue has been a distraction among pilots this year as travel surged and staffing levels couldn’t keep up. The vaccine mandate announcement, it said, “only exacerbates” the situation.

“We are not here to debate the merits of the vaccine mandate. We are here to emphasize that the focus of each SWAPA pilot must be on operating the aircraft at the highest levels of safety in the industry,” the union memo said. “There is absolutely nothing more important or sacred.”

Like American’s pilot union, Southwest’s cited an increase in the ASAP reports to the FAA, as well as in other measures of distractions.

“Recent ASAP reports have shown that distractions have entered the cockpit, impeded performance, and become contributing factors to many error chains,” the memo said. “These distractions must be mitigated.”

The FAA said in a statement to USA TODAY that it is aware of the pilot union concerns.

“We take all reports seriously and will follow up through our well-established safety programs,” the statement said.

How the federal vaccine mandate impacts airlines
Airlines are subject to the vaccine mandate for federal contractors, President Joe Biden announced in September, because they carry government employees and U.S. mail and operate charter flights. Delta estimates federal contracts bring in “hundreds of millions” in revenue every year.

Major airlines are taking different approaches to adhering to the mandate and vaccinations in general. United is at the forefront, implementing an internal mandate a month before Biden’s federal mandate.

Instead of a mandate, Delta Air Lines plans to charge workers who refuse the vaccine $200 a month.

American has told employees they risk being terminated if they don’t get vaccinated by a looming deadline, while Southwest says it won’t fire workers but hasn’t said what will happen to those who aren’t vaccinated. The airline, trying to keep the peace with workers, some of whom protested at the airline’s headquarters earlier this week, has been encouraging workers to apply for exemptions.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
<<snip>>
Had I known back in the early summer what I know now, I would NOT have gotten the Moderna series. @#$%^ the mRNA spike proteins!

Same here. I got mine back in the spring following pressure from my wife, and well before I discovered what I now know about it. I strongly regret having gotten it, and will NOT be getting any "booster" shots! Mine was also Moderna; thankfully no negative effects... so far!

Can't tell you how many people I've spoken with who are really pissed about having been scammed into taking vaccine (their words) and now regretting it. I just really pray every day that these drugs don't result in some unexpected health impacts down the road for those who are vaccinated, which includes my elderly parents.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
<<snip>>
Had I known back in the early summer what I know now, I would NOT have gotten the Moderna series. @#$%^ the mRNA spike proteins!

Same here. I got mine back in the spring following pressure from my wife, and well before I discovered what I now know about it. I strongly regret having gotten it, and will NOT be getting any "booster" shots! Mine was also Moderna; thankfully no negative effects... so far!

Can't tell you how many people I've spoken with who are really pissed about having been scammed into taking vaccine (their words) and now regretting it. I just really pray every day that these drugs don't result in some unexpected health impacts down the road for those who are vaccinated, which includes my elderly parents.

Let me spare you the ending - this will happen. Moderna's 4-5 year lab catastrophes all but put them out of business - until COVID saved them.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
A question for our forum commercial airline pilots; I understand the dangers associated with a distracted flight crew and professional pilots pride themselves on working to avoid distractions on the flight deck... but has there ever been an instance when a formal warning has been issued not to discuss a specific topic?

The article you posted says nothing about prohibiting discussing a particular topic. It refers to the ASAP program, in which crew report safety issues; a number of reports are indicated in which crew identified discussions about the vaccine mandate as a cockpit distraction.

The article notes a SWAPA memo to focus on flying, and avoid distractions.

There are times in flight when a "sterile cockpit" is observed, in which no words not essential to operation of the flight, are to be spoken. No distractions. That would be anything below 10,000'. This isn't an issue of pride. It's a requirement. Outside of that, anything that distracts from the safety of flight, needs to be left behind.

A compadre many years ago used to say that the job has to come before family, church, friends, everything. His point was that if you don't do yor job, you don't get to go to church, or see your family, or hang out with your friends, because you're dead. Once you accept that role in the cockpit, everything else stays behind and you focus on the job.

There are areas best avoided on the flight deck; political discussions can go south fast; religious discussions, too. Anything that distracts should be avoided. There is a place and time. On a flight deck is not the place.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

There are areas best avoided on the flight deck; political discussions can go south fast; religious discussions, too. Anything that distracts should be avoided.

First officers really need to learn and adhere to The Rule -- there are only three things that you are allowed to say to the captain:

• "Nice landing, sir,"
  
  
• "I'll buy the first round," and
  
  
• "I'll take the fat one."

‘Makes No Sense’: Southwest Airlines Says It Won’t Fire Workers Who Don’t Get COVID Vaccine
By Jack Phillips
October 22, 2021 Updated: October 22, 2021
biggersmaller Print

Southwest Airlines’ CEO said the company will not fire employees who do not get the COVID-19 vaccine by Dec. 9 following a Biden administration mandate that was announced last month for federal contractors.

In a statement to news outlets Friday, the Dallas-based carrier confirmed to Fox News it does not want to “lose any employee” over President Joe Biden’s mandate, adding that firing a worker over the vaccine “makes no sense.” It came a day after Southwest CEO Gary Kelly made a similar announcement during an earnings call.

“This is an evolving process working with the government in terms of what they expect, and very clearly, we wanted our employees to know that nobody is going to lose their job on December the 9th if we’re not perfectly in compliance,” Kelly said, according to news reports. The Epoch Times has contacted Southwest for comment.

“It is a work in progress, and we’re going to continue working in good faith to meet the requirements of the executive order. But I’ve already said, and I’m sure you’ve heard, we’re not going to fire anybody who doesn’t get vaccinated,” he continued.

Biden’s mandate will start on Dec. 8, requiring federal contractors to make sure their workers are vaccinated. Employees can be granted a medical or religious exemption.

But Kelly’s and Southwest’s announcements this week mark a reversal in the carrier’s vaccination stance. Earlier this month, Southwest stated that workers would have to be fully vaccinated or receive an exemption to “continue employment with the airline” after it conducted a “thorough review of President Biden’s COVID Action Plan and determined that the carrier’s contracts with the U.S. government require full compliance with the federal vaccination directive.”

Also on Thursday, Southwest said in its quarterly results that it lost some $75 million after thousands of flights were canceled and delayed earlier this month. The firm blamed the weather and unspecified staffing issues, although there was widespread speculation that pilots and other employees walked out over the vaccine requirement.

“I’m not going to fire anybody,” Kelly told CNBC Thursday after the quarterly results were released.

Hundreds of workers and others also demonstrated outside Southwest’s Dallas headquarters on Monday, demanding an end to the vaccination requirement.

Earlier in October, Southwest’s pilot’s union filed a lawsuit against the company, arguing that the COVID-19 shot could trigger potential career-ending side-effects for pilots. In court filings over the weekend, Southwest asked a judge to dismiss the lawsuit and said an injunction against its vaccine mandate could potentially harm its business.

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker said this week that unvaccinated workers also will not be fired by the Dec. 9 mandate, saying the company will “work with” those who haven’t got the shot.

Link

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

75 million is losses put some reality into the management.

Didn't SouthWest just kick the can down the road to reporting by Nov. 24 and threatening to fine unvaccinated personnel?

An employer cannot fine its employees.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
There are areas best avoided on the flight deck; political discussions can go south fast; religious discussions, too. Anything that distracts should be avoided.

First officers really need to learn and adhere to The Rule -- there are only three things that you are allowed to say to the captain:

• "Nice landing, sir,"
  
  
• "I'll buy the first round," and
  
  
• "I'll take the fat one."

[/QUOTE]
I guess I can’t be a first mate…
I’m good with the first two but not the third.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
An employer cannot fine its employees.

Why not?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
An employer cannot fine its employees.

Why not?

I have just never seen that happen. I can see with holding a bonus or incentive - but a "fine" just seems really odd.

I would guess the fine is actually a cut in pay.

I would think the employer can only fine an employee if it is defined they can do it in the employment contract they signed when hired. If you have a job that doesn't have you sign a contract when hired, I don't think they can fine you.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

There are areas best avoided on the flight deck; political discussions can go south fast; religious discussions, too. Anything that distracts should be avoided.

First officers really need to learn and adhere to The Rule -- there are only three things that you are allowed to say to the captain:

• "Nice landing, sir,"
  
  
• "I'll buy the first round," and
  
  
• "I'll take the fat one."

I think you forgot the fourth: “I’ll take the chicken*.” *Or the vegetarian, or whatever the Captain doesnt want.

Delta makes them (unvaccinated) pay $200 more per month for "health insurance"

JB

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I would guess the fine is actually a cut in pay.

quote:

Delta makes them (unvaccinated) pay $200 more per month for "health insurance"

... which they blamed on the high cost of hospitalization for Covid.

But, increasingly, deaths and hospitalization is among the vaccinated.

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:


I have just never seen that happen. I can see with holding a bonus or incentive - but a "fine" just seems really odd.

Ok. You said an employer can't fine an employee...which is defined as "I've never seen it." That's not the same as an employer can't do it.

I've seen employers fine employees dollars deducted from pay for performance, as penalties, and as direct costs. A pilot who has a flat-spotted tire on landing, for example: I've worked at several places in which the first tire was free...after that, the pilot pays for the tire. When the cost is eight hundred dollars for a tire, or more, it gets pricy. I've seen employers fine an employee in money, days off, and other means. Years ago, pilots who jettisoned a load of retardant on the way to a fire, got charged the cost of the load of retardant. That policy got people killed, and was stopped. Fining employees continues, however.

I've seen employees fined for a number of things, including taking time off to get a covid test after they had been exposed, and before they potentially exposed another crew.

As for contracts that the employee as signed, in general, the contract is typically between the union and the company, and the pilot works under that contract, though there are certainly cases in which individual contracts are signed, such as for the cost of training. Some operators and airlines, in the past, have charged employees training costs, or have required a signed contract in which the employee must pay back the training costs if the employee does not remain in service for a given period of time. When training costs for a given employer can range from 20,000 to 45,000 or more, it's not a small thing.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Delta makes them (unvaccinated) pay $200 more per month for "health insurance"

... which they blamed on the high cost of hospitalization for Covid.

But, increasingly, deaths and hospitalization is among the vaccinated.

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

Yeah, that too is going to end up in court and very likely be a loser for Delta.