quote:

The previous timeline seemed nice and tidy, this new one seems odd

Yeah, seems they should have been on scene quicker, and had a better timeline way earlier.

How did it take this long to figure out what time the guard was shot?

The investigators give the impression that they really don't know what they're doing. This may not be true. The people investigating this incident may be top notch, but the slow release of confusing information makes them look like clowns.

When an event is unfolding, it does so in many different ways to those experiencing it. The chaos and confusion are myriad, and armchair quarter backing for hours and days with much more information to review compared to the people going through "shit going south at the speed of OMFG!" it is a hoot to see people yammering on about who should have done what faster and without error, yada yada yada.

Try being on an aircraft full of explosives and 8-10 thousand feet, five miles from the nearest suitable runway and dealing with an on-board fire, and up to 13 crewmemebrs trying to figure out to shit the bird or stay at station.

Or what the people responding to an event that interrupted another boring day at work, with the distractions of thousands of folks in a concert and the grind of work, then it all starts coming unglued.

Think through the moment, put yourself in any one place and imagine trying to react when you don't know what, how many, where, and such.

Just stop, close your eyes and put yourself there and think until you have a good idea what it might have been like, then look at the clock and tell me, how long did that take?

ANd yeah, after the fact trying to cover ass, is always ripe for bullshit infomration as those responsible try to "pretty up" their part.

I always hate that. Just put it all out there, then we learn real life application for and to maybe prevent the "next time" from being a shit show.

I just watched the interview with his brother.

He seems crazy as well and also looks and sounds like Woogie (Chris Elliot) from Something About Mary.

Seriously, he's Woogie.

There is one simple explanation. I have read the police didn't know about Campos until they found him on the 32nd floor.

shooting stops at 10:15
police arrive at 32nd floor at 10:17 and find Campos
Campos says the shooter fired thru the door.

The police may have assumed Campos was shot just before they found him.

Whether justified or not, the new data will not reflect well because there was an opportunity to act before the mass shooting. We may never know if those 6 minutes could have been used effectively to save lives.

I agree it is one thing to sit back and ponder the historical events to create "what ifs", and another thing to act in real time to a very confusing, high pressure situation.

Texas hold'em is a lot easier when you watch tv and see what everyone's cards are.

Some of you guys seem to have some awful lofty notions about how fast one can get information, process it, report it to the proper people, and then get those people up 32 flights of a sky rise hotel and to the correct room.

They also for some reason had to pry open the emergency escape door that was close to the shooter's room in order to get on the floor is what I heard. He had apparently screwed shut or somehow barricaded it which is maybe why the alarm went off because he was messing with the door.

But of course...more speculation.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The investigators give the impression that they really don't know what they're doing. This may not be true. The people investigating this incident may be top notch, but the slow release of confusing information makes them look like clowns.

Or they are clowns and the release rate of information only highlights that fact.

I don't believe this is true; however, it must be part of the solution set.

quote:

Woogie

(shudder)

So, the narrative that he killed himself after being found out by the guard is void. That means, he shot the guard, shot up everybody, and just decided to off himself without being confronted, with all that unused equipment and ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Some of you guys seem to have some awful lofty notions about how fast one can get information, process it, report it to the proper people, and then get those people up 32 flights of a sky rise hotel and to the correct room.

They also for some reason had to pry open the emergency escape door that was close to the shooter's room in order to get on the floor is what I heard. He had apparently screwed shut or somehow barricaded it which is maybe why the alarm went off because he was messing with the door.

But of course...more speculation.

I've been following this thread but maybe I missed something, but checking the emergency door alarm makes a lot more sense than what I heard several times in the past about an alarm on an guest room door for it being ajar. Almost every hotel has electronic locks, I highly doubt hotels can monitor them in real time, especially huge places like this one. The electronic mechanism is on the door not the frame. Where is the wiring to the central location? I highly doubt they are wi-fi. I see people propping their guest doors all the time for people to let other people in, loading the car, etc. Nobody checks on that. Am I wrong, does that technology exist in the hotel world?

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
So, the narrative that he killed himself after being found out by the guard is void. That means, he shot the guard, shot up everybody, and just decided to off himself without being confronted, with all that unused equipment and ammo.

He shot for about 10 minutes straight, got tired and took a break, and realized that this was turning out to be real work and not as fun as he thought it would be.

The new timeline might clear up a couple of oddities.

As mentioned earlier, it makes more sense that the unarmed security guard was just strolling down the hall to check out an open door alarm or emergency door alarm than he was going to engage a guy firing off hundreds of rounds.

Also, early on they said it looked like the shooter had plans to escape. Maybe he saw the security guard and panicked and fired before he was set up and ready to go. It would explain why it took another 5-6 minutes before he started firing on the crowd after shooting at the guard. If he wasn't ready to go yet it would take a few minutes to break the windows and get set up to fire. If the security guard hadn't been there think about how much longer it would have taken the police to nail down exactly where he was. He could have at least attempted to escape if that was his plan. But since he had to fire at the guard and the police got there relatively quickly he decided to just end it.

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
I just watched the interview with his brother.

He seems crazy as well and also looks and sounds like Woogie (Chris Elliot) from Something About Mary.

Seriously, he's Woogie.

I knew he reminded me of someone.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The investigators give the impression that they really don't know what they're doing. This may not be true. The people investigating this incident may be top notch, but the slow release of confusing information makes them look like clowns.

Or they are clowns and the release rate of information only highlights that fact.

I don't believe this is true; however, it must be part of the solution set.

Din’t ignore the role of the media in this fiasco, getting confused, jumbling information, misquoting sources, etc. There are a lot of them, running around in confusion, getting mistaken answers to erroneous questions, etc.

Do we know if he had any ammo left when he killed himself or is it possible that he stop firing because he ran out of ammo? Alternatively, I recall reading one report – not sure where from – that stated that the way the scene appeared made the police believe it was possible that He shot himself accidentally. I haven't heard anymore about that. So I'm not sure if it is still under consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Do we know if he had any ammo left when he killed himself or is it possible that he stop firing because he ran out of ammo? Alternatively, I recall reading one report – not sure where from – that stated that the way the scene appeared made the police believe it was possible that He shot himself accidentally. I haven't heard anymore about that. So I'm not sure if it is still under consideration.

I doubt he shot himself accidentally. I saw the picture. He used a revolver and the wound looked deliberate.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:... is it possible that he stop firing because he ran out of ammo? ...

I think there is a picture showing were loaded mags stacked by a square pillar in the room. about 8 or so.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
The new timeline might clear up a couple of oddities.

As mentioned earlier, it makes more sense that the unarmed security guard was just strolling down the hall to check out an open door alarm or emergency door alarm than he was going to engage a guy firing off hundreds of rounds.

Also, early on they said it looked like the shooter had plans to escape. Maybe he saw the security guard and panicked and fired before he was set up and ready to go. It would explain why it took another 5-6 minutes before he started firing on the crowd after shooting at the guard. If he wasn't ready to go yet it would take a few minutes to break the windows and get set up to fire. If the security guard hadn't been there think about how much longer it would have taken the police to nail down exactly where he was. He could have at least attempted to escape if that was his plan. But since he had to fire at the guard and the police got there relatively quickly he decided to just end it.

Regarding how long it took the police to get there and if it would have taken longer.....

The initial timeline was the shooting happened, the guard then was shot, retreated and met with cops almost at the same time. Now, he was shot and a 16 minute gap until he met the cops. No indication that he communicated with anyone to let them know what was going on. When the cops entered they apparently werent exactly sure where the shooter was. With 16 minutes you'd think that all of that info would have been put out. So he was shot and sitting around for 16 minutes and didnt scream into his radio for help? Bang on anyone's room door to call for help? Use his cellphone? He was in good enough condition after being shot to assist cops in evacuating other rooms but not in good enough shape to let anyone know where he was or what was going on for 16 minutes?

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The investigators give the impression that they really don't know what they're doing. This may not be true. The people investigating this incident may be top notch, but the slow release of confusing information makes them look like clowns.

Or they are clowns and the release rate of information only highlights that fact.

I don't believe this is true; however, it must be part of the solution set.

Din’t ignore the role of the media in this fiasco, getting confused, jumbling information, misquoting sources, etc. There are a lot of them, running around in confusion, getting mistaken answers to erroneous questions, etc.

In this case, the revised timeline and revised date of checkin, both versions were straight from the Sheriff's mouth during press briefings. They're available online.

Now, in general I'll consider myself a dummy. Not a rocket scientist for sure. But I dont get why after hearing this in the press conference, not one of these brilliant media types raised their hand and asked ...."uhhh, so what was the security guard doing for the 16 minutes in between being shot and bumping into the cops?"