ALPA...Air Line Pilots Association. I've been a dues-paying member since 15-NOV 2004...almost 19 years. When the company FIRED ME for not bending to its illegal clot shot mandate, MY union...not even my local reps...lifted a finger to help me or 354 of my "similarly situated" brothers and sisters fight management's Draconian measures. ALPA National allowed our Master Executive Council Chairman to lie in bed with the CEO to make unilateral decisions on this subject.

Yes...my union is a necessary evil, but I am not alone with a desire to move for a resolution of no confidence and decertify their asses...

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^^What make you think they waited until the last minute to bargain?

A few snippets from the linked story on the previous page:

UAW locals get marching orders for strike against Big Three
Updated: Sep. 15, 2023, 7:26 a.m.|Published: Sep. 14, 2023, 10:10 p.m.

- At 10 p.m. on Thursday, UAW President Shawn Fain announced three locals were selected to start the strike at midnight. Those locals represent Ford Michigan Assembly Plant in Wayne, Stellantis Toledo Assembly Complex in Ohio and General Motors Wentzville Assembly Center in Missouri.

The contract between the UAW and Ford, Stellantis and General Motors expires at 11:59 p.m. on Thursday, Sept. 14. Fain has repeatedly said the union will not grant an extension if an agreement is not met by the deadline. Bargaining will pause temporarily on Friday, Sept. 15, so Fain and UAW leadership can join picket lines.

- Ford’s CEO Jim Farley took to cable news on Thursday night saying the wage hike in addition to shortened work weeks would put the company into bankruptcy.

“You want us to choose bankruptcy over supporting our workers,” said Farley, in a CNBC interview.

https://www.cleveland.com/news...ainst-big-three.html

The way I intrepid the contract deal is this, they had an expiration date, they should have "bargained" for an "agreement" at least a week before. My use of bargain for a term I should have used agreement for.

Even so, I would think right now that either side has no contract with each other and that they can do anything they want with each other. But I'm sure it's not that easy or GM would fire/rehire workers right now.

^^^You've obviously never been the member of a union, nor involved in the negotiation of a CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). For a CBA of this magnitude, they've likely been at the 'bargaining table' for months! And there's really no way for the Automakers to just fire/rehire all the workers either!

It should be interesting regardless. The UAW demands are simply NOT based in reality, for if the 'Big 3' were to agree to them, the resulting price INCREASE would render them be unable to compete in the marketplace! Customers simply won't pay Mercedes/Porsche/Audi prices for a Chevrolet, ever! Who would...NOBODY, that's who!

Don't forget, part of the problem here, and the resulting ludicrous demands by the UAW, is this quote after UPS caved in their recent contract negotiation/concessions w/ the Teamsters Union...

“We demanded the best contract in the history of UPS, and we got it,” said Teamsters General President Sean M. O’Brien in a statement. This contract sets a new standard in the labor movement and raises the bar for all workers.”

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^^You've obviously never been the member of a union, nor involved in the negotiation of a CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement). For a CBA of this magnitude, they've likely been at the 'bargaining table' for months! And there's really no way for the Automakers to just fire/rehire all the workers either!

It should be interesting regardless. It would seem that the UAW demands are not based in reality, for if the 'Big 3' were to agree to them, the resulting price INCREASE would render them be unable to compete in the marketplace.

Don't forget, part of the problem here, and the resulting ludicrous demands by the UAW is this quote after UPS caved in their recent contract negotiation/concessions w/ the Teamsters Union...

“We demanded the best contract in the history of UPS, and we got it,” said Teamsters General President Sean M. O’Brien in a statement. This contract sets a new standard in the labor movement and raises the bar for all workers.”

No, never had to deal with a union, I'm always learning something, doesn't make sense to me though. If two parties can't agree several months before the end date that I would hope they have a escape plan after the expiration date.

quote:

Even so, I would think right now that either side has no contract with each other and that they can do anything they want with each other. But I'm sure it's not that easy or GM would fire/rehire workers right now.

Under the NLRA, workers can’t be fired or discriminated against for participating in a strike.

However, economic strikers can be permanently replaced if their employer hires someone else to do their job, Dau-Schmidt said: “ Permanent replacement looks a lot like firing from the employees’ perspective. ”

Strikers must be offered a position vacated by their replacement before anyone else is hired, though, Block said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/0...mmer-of-strikes.html

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
ALPA...Air Line Pilots Association. I've been a dues-paying member since 15-NOV 2004...almost 19 years. When the company FIRED ME for not bending to its illegal clot shot mandate, MY union...not even my local reps...lifted a finger to help me or 354 of my "similarly situated" brothers and sisters fight management's Draconian measures. ALPA National allowed our Master Executive Council Chairman to lie in bed with the CEO to make unilateral decisions on this subject.

Yes...my union is a necessary evil, but I am not alone with a desire to move for a resolution of no confidence and decertify their asses...

Why is your union a necessary evil? Has the airline industry been employing children, providing unsafe work environments, grueling hours, or paying poverty wages?

I don't see the need in modern times for a union.

With regard to above Skins & ERJ_Pilot.... yes on grueling working hours. I know a few pilots and flight crew members and their schedules are absolutely crazy. In my opinion scheduled way too tight. I'd guess if it wasn't for the applicable unions and the FAA you'd have aircraft falling out of the sky due to pilots and crews being pushed beyond limits for profits.



OK.... back to the UAW. I've spent a bit of time in automotive plants and what I've seen would shock most normal people. The frivolous waste of time, effort, and money that would NEVER.... N E V E R... be tolerated in a normal work environment is normal and customary. These people are masters at working the system. There are people that haven't lifted a finger in years due to loopholes. Others are making double or triple time for their jobs due to loopholes. There are quite a few doing both. Don't you DARE plug something back in, you have to wait an hour for an electrical supervisor to authorize it, then another half hour for an electrician to show up and insert a 110V plug back in the wall that you would do at home without thinking. Something spilled on the floor, DO NOT TOUCH IT... even if it's a hazard. You get to play the same game with the electricians with janitorial. Oh, and if it's near a break time add that to your wait time. If it's at end of shift, you get to do the whole parade again with the next shift coming on. You better hope they don't need a tool because they won't get it from the crib 5' away where 2 are hanging, they need to get it from across the plant. I could write a book on the crazy stuff I've seen and I haven't event mentioned the open prostitution, gambling, drugs and alcohol going on in those plants.


I have very little sympathy when they cry about wages when I know guys in basic union jobs that have a nicer house, more and nicer vehicles, boats etc., than engineers and managers working in the same company. Guess what, THEY don't get over time, so all the extra nights and weekends they spend working are unpaid. No union worker would breathe in a plant if they aren't getting OT for it. I actually know a few engineers who left their jobs, got union jobs as it was less stress and more pay. THAT is a problem.

BUT!! Fear not UAW... Biden is sending his aids, Top Men to be sure, to make sure that you aren't crushed by those evil horrible automakers and, yes, even though you have the highest pay for what you do anywhere, you deserve a 40% pay raise apparently. I guess if the the company makes good profits they shouldn't be able to invest any of it back in the business they should have to give it all to the workers.

Perhaps the UAW has minds that know the workers will need wages like this to keep up with coming inflation. My union negotiated our contract right before the current spike and by the look of it they didn’t have a clue what was coming. I assume with work and material hard to come by at the time it’s hard to justify big raises. So now I go backward for my last five years.

My last ten years of employment went with no increase in wage. None. I was actually happy to have my job still.

quote:

Originally posted by Ozarkwoods:
They are going to price themselves right out of a job.

That is a likely outcome.

I read this morning SS raise this year is likely to be around 3.4%. Food for thought.

quote:

This is why we have trucks that cost 90,000 dollars.

That, and $3500 tail lights.


Back on topic... I, too, think I might like working 32 hours and getting paid for 56. Heck, on a plan like that, I might even have time for that part-time holiday gig at Home Depot for a few more bucks.

Am I correct in assuming these folks are assembly line workers? They are not creating anything, just putting stuff together. Am I correct in assuming that robots are doing most of the work? Creativity and independent thinking are not in the mix. I remember Brian Bosworth speaking of putting a loose bolt in the driver's door to drive folks nuts. That is creative, but not what was desired by management.

GM needs to die.

I am Union by force, not choice.
I moved to KC as my wife wanted to be near her daughter/grandkids.
The Company I work for wasn't Union where we moved from, but is where we moved.
I pay my dues in order to work there, I get "protection" but it don't mean nothing.
I'm by my nature a hard and intelligent person, at work and play.
Pay for the right to work there, frikkin' sux!

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
My last ten years of employment went with no increase in wage. None. I was actually happy to have my job still.

It’s going to be a slap in the face for most companies to try and maintain a workforce. Between boomers retiring, inflation, and gig jobs, they are really going to have to put up or shut up. Sadly I think there is going to be lots of shutting up.

I had to cut my teams overtime today because of this BS.

Fuck you UAW

IMHO we have $90K trucks for a lot of reasons. Sure, labor is a big factor but so is leather power seats with heating and cooling, infotainment centers, and a bazillion other things crammed into a truck that an F150 buyer in 1973 couldn't even conceive of and really are likely not necessary.

The UAW has been smart enough to know that they could easily be replaced in large part with automation which is why guaranteed jobs are part of each contract. They effectively jack up their labor price and prevent employers from replacing them. What a sweet heart deal that is right?

Fuck 'em. Bring in the scabs.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
I read this morning SS raise this year is likely to be around 3.4%. Food for thought.

People just read the headlines and think they want an immediate 64% raise.

The raise amount which is now 30% is over the length of the entire contract. I don’t know how long the contract is but if it’s over 5 years or more that’s not that out of line. They have a two tier system also so a lot of the current workers don’t really make much per hour.

They based their original 64% raise request on the amount that the upper management got over that same timeframe.