I have to wonder - do the people who work for the union itself members of any union?

quote:

Originally posted by SigSAC:
I have to wonder - do the people who work for the union itself members of any union?

You can be pretty damn sure they pay themselves well! Not to mention that their benefits are at least as generous as the most benefitted union member.

The net effect of all this nonsense is so as to increase market share for foreign manufacturers, hope everybody enjoys their new FAW or Dongfeng SUV with the Chinesium block ICE!

I stopped buying American cars in the 1970s. I grew up in Delaware which once had two assembly plants: Chrysler and GM, both gone. The stories of poor work performance and the attendant poor build quality were numerous.

We should not forgot about the corruption in the UAW, at least two presidents convicted of corruption.

As long as Unions who almost exclusively support Democrats who support their higher wages with unfair laws, who then send their dues almost exclusively to the Democrat party, they will never convince me that their plight is real.

Let them eat Twinkies.

quote:

Originally posted by uvahawk:
I grew up in Delaware which once had two assembly plants: Chrysler and GM, both gone. The stories of poor work performance and the attendant poor build quality were numerous.

I was born, raised, and have lived most of my life in the Metro-Detroit area. Once the "Auto Capital of the World" in truth, now in name only.

Plus most of my professional career has been working for companies that provided products and services for the automobile industry.

As you might imagine: I've had quite a bit of exposure to the automotive industry and the UAW.

My brother had friends that were "factory rats." (Their term, not mine.) The stories they used to tell of some of the crap they used to pull--and get away with because of union protection--were nothing short of appalling. From stealing parts (incl. entire short blocks) and tools to deliberate line sabotage to start the weekend early: They loved to regale us with their exploits.

It's not just the union, though. I ran across more than a little management stupidity and incompetence in my years working in the industry.

Suffice it to say I've little love or respect for the U.S. auto industry.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

My brother had friends that were "factory rats." (Their term, not mine.) The stories they used to tell of some of the crap they used to pull--and get away with because of union protection--were nothing short of appalling. From stealing parts (incl. entire short blocks) and tools ...

Well, how the hell else are they going to get their '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56
'57, '58, '59 automobile...?

$100,000 subcompact cars to come.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by uvahawk:
I grew up in Delaware which once had two assembly plants: Chrysler and GM, both gone. The stories of poor work performance and the attendant poor build quality were numerous.

I was born, raised, and have lived most of my life in the Metro-Detroit area. Once the "Auto Capital of the World" in truth, now in name only.

Plus most of my professional career has been working for companies that provided products and services for the automobile industry.

As you might imagine: I've had quite a bit of exposure to the automotive industry and the UAW.

My brother had friends that were "factory rats." (Their term, not mine.) The stories they used to tell of some of the crap they used to pull--and get away with because of union protection--were nothing short of appalling. From stealing parts (incl. entire short blocks) and tools to deliberate line sabotage to start the weekend early: They loved to regale us with their exploits.

It's not just the union, though. I ran across more than a little management stupidity and incompetence in my years working in the industry.

Suffice it to say I've little love or respect for the U.S. auto industry.

It's not just the American automakers trust me. I have seen some EPIC dumb assery from Asian and European OEMs as well, and one so chock full of the biggest assholes you could ever dream up that I will NEVER own of their shit ass cars, but, at least most have been smart enough not to unionize.

And the days of the shithole nightmare Mexican plants is over too, most of the new ones are just as nice or nicer than the US plants. 20 years ago they were dirty, polluting, unsafe holes I hated going to. Now they are modern and nice.

The pay opening pay increases were based on the average pay increases of the C.E.O.'s of the Big 3. All the auto manufacturers have seen record profits the past two years (after being bailed out by the U.S. taxpayers). The UAW just once their share.

However, the UAW is not entering into this negotiation in a strong position. Demand for automobiles has been dropping over the past six months or so, particularly for the $75K plus pickup trucks that the Big 3 have been using to subsidize their money losing EV lines.

The Big 3 have also been cranking out vehicles to make sure that their dealerships are stocked in the event of a strike which is looking ever more likely.

The Big 3 are in a much better position to weather this strike than the UAW.

In the late 80's/early 90's I was co-owner of a quick lube shop; franchise. It was during that time, working on any car you might see at that time, that I realized American cars were pieces of shit. I stopped buying them after that. Even the Hyundai's that were just coming out felt far more solid than the American cars. Hate to say, but it's the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
The UAW just once their share.

Their share? Their share is getting paid what the market will bear for what is mostly unskilled labor.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
The Big 3 are in a much better position to weather this strike than the UAW.

Particularly if the union does what Fain has claimed it will: Strike all three of the "Big 3" simultaneously.

Y'see: They normally run a pretty slick game: They pick one target and strike that one, keeping the union coffers supplied from members continuing to pay dues at the other two. Once they bring their target to its knees they wrestle each of the other two to the ground one-at-a-time, at their leisure.

(That that uneven playing field was ever allowed always struck me as inequitable. The same union at all automakers, but, if the automakers were to coordinate with one another against their common opponent, they'd find themselves charged with collusion.)

Anyway... now one of two things happens: They either follow-through with Fain's challenge, in which case the automakers just might be able to hold out, or the union resorts to its traditional tactic--thus making Fain's challenge appear to be nothing more than bluster and the union to look weaker than what he'd have liked it to appear.

Being as Fain has already announced they're not going to strike every plant all at once right out of the gate I suspect they'll go with option #2.

quote:

Their share? Their share is getting paid what the market will bear for what is mostly unskilled labor.

Already too high

Another incentive is to take extra special care of your current vehicle. I drive 5000 miles a year on my Tacoma and wife does the same on her Avalon. Both are just at the 20,000 mark. It should be easy to keep these reliably running to 200,000+ which puts me at 96 years old. I doubt I'll be car shopping at that age if by some fluke I'm still kicking.

NavyGuy, I'll play both sides of your coin.

It absolutely makes sense to take good care of what you've got, for it simply prolongs its life. No need to trash something expensive, and have to replace it quickly.

On the other hand, there's no stinking way I could claim just 10K miles per year on two household vehicles. I roll up about 16-18k miles per year on mine alone.

Back to the first point: Taking good care is a "yuge" part of why my 21-year old SUV shows nearly 325k miles today. And I'm more convinced than ever to repair its minor issues and keep it going. New cars are way too complex, way too expensive, and (in my opinion) bound to be less reliable/repairable a comparable 20 years from now. I love the modern goods, and I have a short list of way newer cars I'd like to have... but the reality is that even if I could acquire one of them I'd keep the old SUV too. It's not glamorous, but it's dependable and it's cheap to insure.

Back on topic: I'm very curious to watch this UAW/Big3 event purely as a spectator. It's a constant game of chicken, with each side doing a ton of crowing.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
In the late 80's/early 90's I was co-owner of a quick lube shop; franchise. It was during that time, working on any car you might see at that time, that I realized American cars were pieces of shit. I stopped buying them after that. Even the Hyundai's that were just coming out felt far more solid than the American cars. Hate to say, but it's the truth.

Thirty years ago was the worst American cars ever built for sure.

Back in the mid 1980's Ross Perot made it interesting at GM when he was on the board of directors. Was fun watching TV when he was on . I remember one time there was a quality survey about car components at that time. The best GM could do was #3 on cigarette lighters, he was rather upset about that. Didn't make much difference though, corporate still does it the old fashion way.
They could get rid of half the management and still function very well.

https://www.cleveland.com/news...ainst-big-three.html

The United Auto Workers officially have their marching orders. The countdown is on to determine if they will follow them through.

At 10 p.m. on Thursday, UAW President Shawn Fain announced three locals were selected to start the strike at midnight. Those locals represent Ford Michigan Assembly Plant in Wayne, Stellantis Toledo Assembly Complex in Ohio and General Motors Wentzville Assembly Center in Missouri.

Unlike previous strikes, the UAW is strategically selecting local union chapters to strike automakers on a rolling basis rather than a full walk out of all members. The union is also going after all three companies rather than picking one target.

The contract between the UAW and Ford, Stellantis and General Motors expires at 11:59 p.m. on Thursday, Sept. 14. Fain has repeatedly said the union will not grant an extension if an agreement is not met by the deadline. Bargaining will pause temporarily on Friday, Sept. 15, so Fain and UAW leadership can join picket lines.

A major talking point has been the 40% wage increase the UAW stuck to throughout negotiations. The increase comes from the estimated pay raise the CEOs have received since the last contract was ratified.

General Motors last offer was 20% over four and a half years with a 10% bump in the first year. Ford was also at 20% and Stellantis came in at 17.5% over the life of the contract.

Ford’s CEO Jim Farley took to cable news on Thursday night saying the wage hike in addition to shortened work weeks would put the company into bankruptcy.

“You want us to choose bankruptcy over supporting our workers,” said Farley, in a CNBC interview.

Other UAW demands that were not satisfied at the bargaining table included:

Eliminate tiers on wages and benefits by implementing a 90-day progression to the top pay rate.
Restore cost-of-living allowances to keep up with inflation. This was a concession during the 2009 negotiation.
Establish a defined benefit pension for all workers.
Reestablish retiree medical benefits.
Ensure the right to strike over plant closures.
Create a working family protection program.
Make all temporary workers permanent after 90 days.
More paid time off.
Significantly increase retiree pay.
32-hour work week.

“Just as in the 1930s, we’re living in a time of stunning inequality throughout our society,” Fain said. “We’re living in a time where our industry is undergoing massive transformations. And we’re living in a time where our labor movement is redefining itself.”

Local unions not called to strike were told to continue working. Bargaining will continue meaning non-striking workers will be working under an expired contract.

The UAW’s legal counsel, attorney Ben Dictor, detailed management’s legal obligation to maintain the status quo in terms of wages, workload, job assignments and more. He advised union activists to be on the lookout for any unilateral changes made by management.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:

Other UAW demands that were not satisfied at the bargaining table included:

Eliminate tiers on wages and benefits by implementing a 90-day progression to the top pay rate.
Restore cost-of-living allowances to keep up with inflation. This was a concession during the 2009 negotiation.
Establish a defined benefit pension for all workers.
Reestablish retiree medical benefits.
Ensure the right to strike over plant closures.
Create a working family protection program.
Make all temporary workers permanent after 90 days.
More paid time off.
Significantly increase retiree pay.
32-hour work week.

Quite bold. Seriously, a defined benefit pension? They're dreaming. That's pretty much the way of the dodo nowadays.

A 32 hour work week? How precious.

I remember the government getting involved and solving a rail road strike recently. Much to the satisfaction of that union. Wonder if the same play is about to unfold again.