lots of "interesting" things going on here

Potential huge impact on auto industry. A lot of it ties into the move to electric vehicles.

https://hotair.com/tree-huggin...for-starters-n572123

Union "demands":

• 32-hour workweek

• 46 percent pay raise over 4 years

• Right to strike over plant closures

• Increased retiree benefits

• Defined pension plan for all workers

• Cost of living adjustments

The unions want car makers to keep employees through the transition being forced to EVs, even though EVs are easier to manufacture, and take less employees to do so.

these automakers are selling EVs at a giant loss. As an example, Ford currently loses about -$30k per Mustang Mach-E manufactured and are likely years away from consistent profitability if sales grow. However, so far this year, Ford is experiencing days-on-hand of inventory 100+ days, significantly above the industry average of 60, signaling poor demand.

Ford recently dropped prices to increase sales, which will likely cause them to lose more money per vehicle, at least in the short term in the hopes sales increase dramatically. We have yet to see if sales actually increased.

The union is concerned about the plans by all three automakers to convert from traditional gasoline powered vehicles to EVs in the coming decades. it takes an estimated one third less hours of work to assemble an EV than a car with an internal combustion engine, since that engine and the transmission that goes with it has so many moving parts missing from an EV.

Biden crammed down highly inflationary regulations in an ill-advised push for EVs with no appreciation of either the costs or the benefits.

Now it seems that push will cost union jobs, so Biden and the unions want those jobs guaranteed whether they are needed or not.

This is despite the huge costs the auto manufacturers face to be part of this fool’s mission.

GM losses would be $380 million through a 10-day strike, according to AEG. That compares to estimates of $325 million for Ford and $285 million impact on Stellantis.

…However, the strike four years ago was only against one automaker, not all three. A simultaneous strike would likely cause ripple effects more quickly, especially for embattled suppliers that are still attempting to recover from lower production caused by supply chain issues.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

This EV push is going to be costly for everyone. Especially the auto workers. They will probably strike until half of the jobs are eliminated.

Interesting for sure!

I'm far from pro union, but I get what they are trying given the push for EVs.

The whole EV push is way ahead of what's truly capable....if it ever is. Certainly not truly green as the BS story goes. And now we're seeing more and more stories about their not being reliable and fire hazards. Shit's going to get real for sure.

32 hour work week, that means they get paid for 32 hours only? I would assume after that it would be overtime? , just wondering. Seems 40hr work weeks are the normal thing. Why change it.

So they want more pay and more benefits for doing less work, and guaranteed jobs even if there's not enough work to keep them all busy. Yeah, that'll fly. A better idea would be a hiring freeze plus encouragement of early retirement (maybe give `em an EV if they retire early?) plus some re-training assistance for those who will become redundant.

For some reason, the phrase "Suck it" comes to mind.

Not sure why...

They are going to price themselves right out of a job.

The UAW have been lap dogs to the democrats forever, so reap it you dumb asses.

I can't tell you how many union fools I've argued with over the years on the plant floor who try and lecture me on why they support the dems. I've been telling them for decades, you imbeciles are voting for people who are actively campaigning and working to put you out of a job.

And these people will line up to vote Biden again...

I’ve seen unions at small companies destroy the place in under 10 years. People never learn to look at the long game, it’s always about right NOW.

Don't forget this quote after UPS caved in their recent contract negotiation/concessions w/ the Teamsters Union...

“We demanded the best contract in the history of UPS, and we got it,” said Teamsters General President Sean M. O’Brien in a statement. This contract sets a new standard in the labor movement and raises the bar for all workers.”

What a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
So they want more pay and more benefits for doing less work, and guaranteed jobs even if there's not enough work to keep them all busy. Yeah, that'll fly. A better idea would be a hiring freeze plus encouragement of early retirement (maybe give `em an EV if they retire early?) plus some re-training assistance for those who will become redundant.

No, a better idea would be to outlaw unions and charge the SOBs with extortion. Then, tell them, "If you'd like a paycheck (that I define), you'll do what I tell you when I tell you. If you don't like it, there's the door."

I loathe unions.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
For some reason, the phrase "Suck it" comes to mind.

It would be great if the automakers would do that, but...

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
People never learn to look at the long game, it’s always about right NOW.

This ^^^^^

It wasn't all that long ago, 'round about 2008, IIRC, that all the automakers were on the ropes. IIRC, union-demanded wages and benefits were one of the reasons, if not the primary reason.

There was a time unions had a valid role. Then the power they gained went to their heads and they began to demand wages and benefits far in excess of the value of the work performed.

I'd like to think the automakers had learned their lesson, but, all my years of exposure to the Not-So-Big-Anymore-3 suggests to me they did not and probably never will.

And, some day, the taxpayer will have to bail them out again.

"All of this has happened before, and it will happen again." -- J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- Various, incl. George Santayana and Winston Churchill

Except... they're not so big anymore. Maybe not "too big to fail" anymore. So next time their myopia may lead to their demise--as it should have last time.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
No, a better idea would be to outlaw unions ...

Or level the playing field.

The reason the UAW can get away with essentially indefinite strikes is they pick one automaker, strike only that automaker, and use the continuing income from the laborers at the other two to keep funding the Union, which gives the strikers strike pay.

The employers are prohibited by law from cooperating with one another in defeating the strike, despite the fact that, in reality, a strike against one is a strike against all three.

Ponzi had nothing on the unions in this respect.

Fix that and you fix the problem.

Some of those demands seem crazy-46% pay increase and a COLA? That's pretty insane. I understand that is only what they are asking for and not what will be approved but they have to be realistic.

As has been said before, politicians who really care for their constituents, should stop pushing for the whole "EV take over" as it is not realistic. The price for one, is far beyond what most people can afford, how much of the resources are there to really make it a reality for everyone, the power grid cannot support an all EV society without more/some of the "evils" they require-nuclear/coal power plants,etc. and all that we give to China for making it possible and their reckless disregard for "global warming" which started this whole thing off.

Of course it seems most politicians don't care about anyone but themselves and what they can get. More rules for thee and not for me.

^^^Well, re: the 'EV take over' dictated the enlightened leftists in charge, this bears repeating...

quote:

these automakers are selling EVs at a giant loss. As an example, Ford currently loses about -$30k per Mustang Mach-E manufactured and are likely years away from consistent profitability if sales grow. However, so far this year, Ford is experiencing days-on-hand of inventory 100+ days, significantly above the industry average of 60, signaling poor demand.

Ford recently dropped prices to increase sales, which will likely cause them to lose more money per vehicle, at least in the short term in the hopes sales increase dramatically.

The UAW strategy was to pick one of the Big 3 and strike - because the production and finanical losses relative to the other two would be massive. This encouraged a quick settlement by the one they struck. Then that contract was shopped to the other two and they usually agreed to it to avert strikes.

Having a monopoly on labor in the industry allowed the UAW to essentially destroy the companies they work for. The Big 3 have moved a lot to Mexico and Canada to get away from the UAW.

But the UAW doesn't have all the new auto plants in the south built by Japanese, Korean, and German automakers. So all they are doing is ensuring the Big 3 will be less competitive and eventually die off.

I watched the UAW strike Navistar International in 2007 when they had no leverage. Within 6 months almost all production was moved to non-union plants in the south and most of the UAW workers were out of a job.

They found quickly that warehouses only pay $14/hour to drive a forklift while Navistar paid $26/hour. They thought they were "getting screwed" because Ford and Chrysler had slightly better pay. But they failed to realize that over the years their representation negotiated for what the members wanted - like minimal mandatory overtime (max 9 hour days, and max 2 Saturdays out of 3, and no Sundays or holidays) in lieu of a higher wage. Ford paid more per hour, but you can be forced 7/12 for two weeks, with every other weekend off provided you work all assigned hours. When I explained this they said "I didn't know", they just believed whatever the union told them.

The UAW propaganda I found in break areas literally sounded like it was still the 1930's and FDR was the greatest president ever.

Interesting fact - The People's Republic of China does not permit labor unions and collective bargaining. "Labor Unions" there are more like social clubs with team building activities, which of course are endorsed buy the CCP party representatives to encourage obedience and "social harmony". So the wealthy industrialists can keep labor costs down, and make themselves richer.

Sounds like the final death knell for the rust belt as manufacturing moves south.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
So they want more pay and more benefits for doing less work, and guaranteed jobs even if there's not enough work to keep them all busy. Yeah, that'll fly. A better idea would be a hiring freeze plus encouragement of early retirement (maybe give `em an EV if they retire early?) plus some re-training assistance for those who will become redundant.

No, a better idea would be to outlaw unions and charge the SOBs with extortion. Then, tell them, "If you'd like a paycheck (that I define), you'll do what I tell you when I tell you. If you don't like it, there's the door."

I loathe unions.

Yeah, there's that option too, not that either the automakers or the politicians are likely to take it. Unions were necessary back in the day, but they've long since outlived their value and now only serve to screw things up and contribute significantly to the domestic-vs-import price gap. Which does nobody any good, except of course our enemies.

Like the 65K sticker on the window of that mid level new pickup? Soon to be 85K!

And without unions all the factories would be sweat shops and the middle class as we know it would not exist.
Unions have their faults but they also have done some good things, worker safety being one of the big items.
I started in the auto industry in 1969 and retired in 2012 and saw a lot of change in that time. Some good, some bad. Walked the picket lines a few times over the years.

To just totally condemn unions is like saying human rights don't exist.
When you think of unions think of what they are. Groups of people that gather as a team to improve their life in certain areas.
I consider the NRA to be a union of sorts. Gun owners organized to fight for their rights.

Edit to add: when you talk the about the high prices of vehicles don't forget all the government safety regulations and all the EPA regulations that drive up the cost of doing business. How about the excessive salaries & bonuses paid to too many executives. And the high profits the dealers get also.
I don't recall the exact number but back in 70s one of the GM VPs publicly stated the UAW cost were not the biggest cost of building cars. My foggy brain recalls it was something like 10%, may a bit more.
A known fact that nobody talks about:EPA regulations was the biggest reason manufacturing started moving out of the US.