https://www.politico.com/f/?id...6f-affb-a5fbcb410000

It may be posted a while back, but has everyone read the different phases proposed to reopen? The 1st phase is just a small change to what we have now, with monitoring.

No one is talking about flipping a switch to go back to Dec 2019. The WI Gov won’t even sit at a table & talk about reopening. He’s barricaded in with his political minions.

That why I’ll be at every protest possible. OBTW, where are the spikes from the in-person voting? There aren’t any.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:...
So you folks just keep on blathering about the Constitution. Two words make those arguments go up in smoke and those words are Martial Law.

So you see invasion by a virus as justification under the Constitution to declare Martial Law??

Seems to me most scientists these days consider a virus to be a biological chemical, not a living organism. Well carbon dioxide is a biological chemical. Since many scientists say our CO2 levels are increasing, that would mean we are being invaded by another biological chemical in addition to the virus. The Pres and every state Governor should immediately declare Martial Law until this nation stops generating CO2.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:....
It sucks man, my grandparents are stuck in the house, but it's what we are dealing with. Does the government ever get anything right? Do you trust them with more power?

Skins, has the gov't ever abused it's power??

Oops, wait a minute, gov't abusing power is one of the cornerstones of the Declaration and the Constitution. And I think many things today are a perfect example.

quote:

Everyone is spouting about the Constitution so lets take a close look at the Constitution. Right there up front and impossible to miss are the Rights to Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Those words aren't in the Constitution, they are in the Declaration of Independence. If you can't even get that right, do you expect us to believe your assertion that a disease epidemic is an invasion that justifies martial law? You'd like to see that, wouldn't you?

The founding fathers believed that life trumps liberty? Are you serious? Then why did so many fight and die for their liberty from Great Britain and then in WW1 and WW2?
Geez man, we get that you're scared but just barricade yourself in the house from now on if it scares you that much. I think you've been "drinkin' the Kool-Aid" the politicians have been trying to serve us.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I am one of those High Risk individuals. Have Heart Disease, COPD, Emphysema and over 65 years old. Also reside in the Hot Zone for Michigan.

You know how I regard all these demands for lockdowns to be lifted. I regard them as Death Threats. Every one of you need to consider the results. Because what you are advocating is the same as taking your 9mm handgun and going to your mother, father, uncle, or grandparent and putting a bullet into their head.......

........I don't give a damn about some supposed Constitutional Rights here, this is truly about the Right To Live. You are in effect denying others the Right To Live if you insist on retaining the ability to spread this virus.

As the grandfather of a 5yr old cancer survivor and an adult with an autoimmune disorder in remission, we are both in the "death zone" if we catch the Shanghai Shivers, but that's just life. I would rather he gets to be a kid and play and we both live life fully and be free, than shackled by a virus that no one, no matter what, has control over. There are enough white suburban Karen's and Kyle's who think they mean well trying to tell me what's best to live my life. Having them shove it down our throats is just one more way I realize they haven't got a god damned clue what it means to live free and enjoy life.

Scooter, I hope you get many more years of life. I also hope you realize that you are a very selfish human being in thinking your life is more important that our freedom, it is not, never has been, and never will be.

I'm starting small. I'll be going to the closed county dog park today and probably every other day henceforth.

quote:

Originally posted by RoverSig:

That is all I know.

So I don’t know if you’ve heard, but you do you know that the number is still 99 percent of the people that get the not-the-flu flu survive, right? That the “experts” have yet to be right on any number or statistic that they have thrown out.

The only question I have is who gets to decide what is right for an individual? The individual or the government. It’s a simple question with two possible answers and outcomes.

This straw man BS about “infecting 22 people” and “save grandpa” that comes up every time someone promises to resist is tired. If I can go to Walmart and social distance, why am I an asshole for going to church and doing the same thing? We all know the answer. Ramadan is fast approaching and we’ve heard zero about the state police patrolling parking lots of mosques. Why do you think that is?

#wolverines

Italy thinking of relaxing restrictions

https://www.breitbart.com/news...ard-end-of-lockdown/

Italians debated Sunday their first cautious steps out of a coronavirus lockdown that has left an estimated half of the working population seeking government support.

The Mediterranean country has been filled with rumours and speculation about when people will finally be allowed to walk the streets freely for the first time since early March.

some officials seem to think that extending the strictest lockdown measures beyond their May 3 deadline might simply not work.

The daily death rate has fallen to half of what it was at the peak of the crisis and people — feeling less frightened but more stir crazy — may simply start going out.

“We must give citizens greater freedom of movement,” Deputy Health Minister Pierpaolo Sileri said on Saturday.

The pressure on Conte from the leaders of Italy’s northern industrial heartland is also growing intense.

The heads of Milan’s Lombardy and Venice’s Veneto regions have both warned that they might soon have to begin reopening businesses on their own.

“We either close everything and die waiting for the virus to go away, or we reopen and live,” Veneto governor Luca Zaia said Thursday.

The La Repubblica daily estimated Sunday that 11.5 million Italians — exactly half of the official workforce — have stopped receiving incomes and started applying for aid.

Much of the Western world is now debating how it can end weeks of confinement without setting off a second pandemic wave.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigolicious:.... I also hope you realize that you are a very selfish human being in thinking your life is more important that our freedom, it is not, never has been, and never will be.

The position that "my life is more important than your freedom" fits quite well into dictatorship practices. Not only the dictator's "life", but also the dictator's "lifestyle" are paramount. IE, dictators have a right to a very elite lifestyle paid for by effectively enslaving the people. Just ask those in Venezuela or North Korea.

quote:

The position that "my life is more important than your freedom" fits quite well into dictatorship practices. Not only the dictator's "life", but also the dictator's "lifestyle" are paramount. IE, dictators have a right to a very elite lifestyle paid for by effectively enslaving the people. Just ask those in Venezuela or North Korea.

And they always try to convince you that their actions are only for your own good...we the common little people are not capable of thinking for ourselves or surviving without the government/dictator's benevolence.

I live in NJ, a "hot zone," and am personally acquainted with people who have had the disease. It's nasty, and for very many people much worse than the flu. When you read the local paper, you'll see articles about a popular high school coach that many know who has been hospitalized in serious condition with the disease. Many people know someone who has the disease. Local fatalities for the disease are big news. So I think that an area like this has a different "feel" in the general public about the level of the threat. People take it serious here. (Not saying people don't take it serious in other places.) Virtually everyone wears a mask. People follow social distancing. If you live in a more rural area I fully understand that the threat probably looks different. Having said that, I find myself siding with the protestors more and more as time goes by. Our governor is an idiot. You can buy lottery tickets and liquor, but you can't go buy a gallon of paint to paint your living room while you are laid off. One of the absolute dumbest things is the ban on elective surgery that is costing hospitals in the state millions. Many hospitals have the capacity to resume elective surgeries without putting anyone at risk. Many "elective" surgeries are not really so elective and it is putting lives at risk. Many hospitals are saying they will have to begin layoffs soon. Pretty ironic. There seems to be no intelligent thought to any of this. Businesses could start opening with curb side delivery. Or social distancing could be enforced in stores. I go to the grocery store and there is no problem. Lines are a little longer, and sometimes people have to wait outside in line to get in. But I have never waited longer than 10 minutes. People get there shit, then leave, because they know people are waiting. If it works in grocery stores, why not almost everywhere. People wear masks, are friendly, and polite. Most people are good. These Governors need to STOP TREATING US LIKE CHILDREN and empower business owners to develop their own plans to open. This is wrong. Enough is enough.

quote:

Originally posted by tleo205:

quote:

The position that "my life is more important than your freedom" fits quite well into dictatorship practices. Not only the dictator's "life", but also the dictator's "lifestyle" are paramount. IE, dictators have a right to a very elite lifestyle paid for by effectively enslaving the people. Just ask those in Venezuela or North Korea.

And they always try to convince you that their actions are only for your own good...we the common little people are not capable of thinking for ourselves or surviving without the government/dictator's benevolence.

And some of the populace actually believe such.

By far, the saddest thing about this virus is learning that a surprising number of people are only fair weather small government, liberty loving conservatives. They love to talk the talk but when they're told to "stay safe" they suddenly take a hard economic turn to the left of Bernie Sanders and an authoritarian turn straight into the office of the Statsi. It's utterly depressing to know that people will abandon all of their convictions at just the threat of a crisis. Still today, I have family members that cannot comprehend why I'm disgusted and terrified by the government power grabs. "We have to do this to keep safe! Don't you want everyone to be safe?"

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
My answer is that Life trumps Liberty.

From time to time people wonder how authoritarians / dictators can come to power under thunderous applause of the public, or how people can allow themselves to be subjected, enslaved, and led to slaughter.

And it's because they start valuing life above all else.

"It's for our own good", "It's bad but just do as you're told", "Just stay alive".

It's sickening but honestly a good demonstration of how that mindset lurks just under the surface of a free society.

Since this was brought up ...

quote:

life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

Those words aren't like rock-paper-scissors with life beating liberty. They are complementary, overlapping with one another. Take away one and the rest fall apart, like pulling a card out of a house of cards.

Sounds like a Grabber to me. Freedom to do the things I like, and freedom from anything I don't like, enforced with government guns, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
By far, the saddest thing about this virus is learning that a surprising number of people are only fair weather small government, liberty loving conservatives. They love to talk the talk but when they're told to "stay safe" they suddenly take a hard economic turn to the left of Bernie Sanders and an authoritarian turn straight into the office of the Statsi. It's utterly depressing to know that people will abandon all of their convictions at just the threat of a crisis. Still today, I have family members that cannot comprehend why I'm disgusted and terrified by the government power grabs. "We have to do this to keep safe! Don't you want everyone to be safe?"

Reminds me of this.

Matthew 13:20-21
"The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away."

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

The only question I have is who gets to decide what is right for an individual?

^^^and another member drinks the kool-aid.