Psalm 19.

The problem with the fairness question is based on a misunderstanding of the gospel. Men aren't condemned to hell because they reject the gospel. They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way. On the contrary, God is perfectly holy. Just you don't allow people into your home with shit on their shoes, God doesnt allow filth into his home. Man knows right from wrong. That ability to distinguish is in them. They knew, deep down, that it was evil to kill that man. Their unrepentant evil is what sends them to hell. Their refusal to respond to the revelation around them assures their eventual destruction, as it does with any unrepentant sinner. It repentance, something man goes thru when he realizes what he truly is, that is the first real step to accepting the gospel. Its pride that keeps man from doing that, not pride that sent that man to that island.

Forgive all my typos. I wrote this on my phone, without my glasses, in the middle of a very loud Chuck E Cheese.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

And yes, many Christians believe that ignorance of the Messiah message is no excuse for anyone: “Didn’t know? Too bad, you’re screwed anyway.” But that’s so manifestly unjust that many others rejected the notion and had to then deal with the next logical question of what happened to the ignorant.

Interestingly though Mankind makes the same proclamation. "Ignorance of the Law is no defense." Judges, lawyers, and police operate under this idea every single day and in fact do not recognize this as manifestly unjust but quite the direct opposite. Justice.

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

This is as absurd as the notion that any person that is not absolved of original sin via baptism is doomed. Some of the most honest, caring, giving people I know don’t believe in any religion.

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

simply the most disgusting thing I've read on the internet in quite awhile

what you're actually saying is that you're oh so much better than us because you believe in fairy tales?

exactly how does that fairy tale give you the right to pass any sort of judgement on anyone other than yourself?

this is the reason why I detest religion in ALL its forms

I don't believe in heaven or hell (except if you live in California or Massachusetts), and if there was a god one would think that god would be pretty smart and judge someone on the basis of intelligence and behavior - either following blindly down a path for which there is zero evidence or using your own intelligence to make a decision on how to live your life

There is not one single person on this planet that has the right to judge how I live my life - your religious beliefs be damned - they don't apply

/rant off/

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

This is as absurd as the notion that any person that is not absolved of original sin via baptism is doomed. Some of the most honest, caring, giving people I know don’t believe in any religion.

Ask a "good" person these questions:

Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Have they ever looked at a woman with lost? Then they are an adulterer in their heart.

Have they ever stolen anything, at all, ever? If so, they are a thief.

Have they ever used Gods name in vain? If so, they a blasphemer.

Any honest person answering those questions just admitted to being a murdering, adultering, thieving, blasphemer. And that's just 4 of the 10 commandments.

Tell me again how they deserve to live in a heaven with a perfect God?

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

simply the most disgusting thing I've read on the internet in quite awhile

what you're actually saying is that you're oh so much better than us because you believe in fairy tales?

exactly how does that fairy tale give you the right to pass any sort of judgement on anyone other than yourself?

this is the reason why I detest religion in ALL its forms

I don't believe in heaven or hell (except if you live in California or Massachusetts), and if there was a god one would think that god would be pretty smart and judge someone on the basis of intelligence and behavior - either following blindly down a path for which there is zero evidence or using your own intelligence to make a decision on how to live your life

There is not one single person on this planet that has the right to judge how I live my life - your religious beliefs be damned - they don't apply

/rant off/

You'll get over it.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

This is as absurd as the notion that any person that is not absolved of original sin via baptism is doomed. Some of the most honest, caring, giving people I know don’t believe in any religion.

Ask a "good" person these questions:

Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Have they ever looked at a woman with lost? Then they are an adulterer in their heart.

Have they ever stolen anything, at all, ever? If so, they are a thief.

Have they ever used Gods name in vain? If so, they a blasphemer.

Any honest person answering those questions just admitted to being a murdering, adultering, thieving, blasphemer. And that's just 4 of the 10 commandments.

Tell me again how they deserve to live in a heaven with a perfect God?

I'm not the least bit religious, but doesn't the good book teach you that god forgives?

quote:

Originally posted by varoadking:

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

This is as absurd as the notion that any person that is not absolved of original sin via baptism is doomed. Some of the most honest, caring, giving people I know don’t believe in any religion.

Ask a "good" person these questions:

Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Have they ever looked at a woman with lost? Then they are an adulterer in their heart.

Have they ever stolen anything, at all, ever? If so, they are a thief.

Have they ever used Gods name in vain? If so, they a blasphemer.

Any honest person answering those questions just admitted to being a murdering, adultering, thieving, blasphemer. And that's just 4 of the 10 commandments.

Tell me again how they deserve to live in a heaven with a perfect God?

I'm not the least bit religious, but doesn't the good book teach you that god forgives?

Forgiveness is conditional. The good book does not teach that forgiveness is extended to unrepentant sinners who reject the offer of forgiveness through Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by dar185:
The sad thing isn’t the ignorant atheists/agnostics that swarm to these threads. .

as an Agnostic, I feel he was free to do as he believed, just and you (and I) are free to do as we believe,

the only ignorant thing here is your comment, thinking all Agnostics are ignorant,,

Just a reason the "holier that thou" stereotype exists because there is plenty of truth to it.

Back OT, put yourself if the natives shoes.

Someone comes on your very remote private property, a person you cannot understand - you cannot understand his language nor the book he shows you.

You tell him to go away. But he stays on your property and accosts your family members all day long. They tell him to go away but he seems intent to stay and keeps trying to interact with your uninterested family members.

You use some measure of force to make him leave, you even injure him. You break up his camp and things. However he returns again and again.

Killing him, while unfortunate, seems very very logical in the scheme of things.

I agree,

the native's Culture is completely different, and if they do not like outsiders, then there is likely a reason, and they rebel against it,

dude suffered the consequences, natives just doing their thing,

that may seem very cruel and muderous to our culture, but they do not live by our culture

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

This is as absurd as the notion that any person that is not absolved of original sin via baptism is doomed. Some of the most honest, caring, giving people I know don’t believe in any religion.

Ask a "good" person these questions:

Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Have they ever looked at a woman with lost? Then they are an adulterer in their heart.

Have they ever stolen anything, at all, ever? If so, they are a thief.

Have they ever used Gods name in vain? If so, they a blasphemer.

Any honest person answering those questions just admitted to being a murdering, adultering, thieving, blasphemer. And that's just 4 of the 10 commandments.

Tell me again how they deserve to live in a heaven with a perfect God?

God sounds kind of like a jerkface here.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:

God sounds kind of like a jerkface here.

It's not about God.

It's about you.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Anger = Murder?

Um no. That's a twist that defies logic, though I would love to hear who came up with that equivalence.

As far I as ever heard, anger is neutral. Wrath, one of those seven deadlies that was established after the writing of the bible, is when anger is directed against the innocent.

If we are to take Jesus as an example for our behavior then even he got angry with cause (Mark 3:5), and let's not forget the cleansing of the Temple. Overturning tables and driving people out with a corded whip are not exactly calm and patient actions. There might be a spiritual penalty for unjust anger, but anger equaling murder...sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
Ask a "good" person these questions:

Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Serious question - why are you saying that being angry at someone makes you a murderer at heart? Is this in the Bible somewhere?

This thread has gone beyond the land of retardation, on both sides of the argument. Jesus Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
This thread has gone beyond the land of retardation, on both sides of the argument. Jesus Christ.

I have never seen discussions about politics or religion that ended well. If they ever do, it's by God's hand.

Again, it's a self licking ice cream cone, born of a need to make people believe that if they have a shitty life here they'll be big balling in the afterlife, all as a means of control.

Well, good luck with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

They are condemned to hell because they are evil in their heart. They are born that way

This is as absurd as the notion that any person that is not absolved of original sin via baptism is doomed. Some of the most honest, caring, giving people I know don’t believe in any religion.

Ask a "good" person these questions:

Have you ever been angry at someone? If yes, then they are a murderer in their heart.

Have they ever looked at a woman with lost? Then they are an adulterer in their heart.

Have they ever stolen anything, at all, ever? If so, they are a thief.

Have they ever used Gods name in vain? If so, they a blasphemer.

Any honest person answering those questions just admitted to being a murdering, adultering, thieving, blasphemer. And that's just 4 of the 10 commandments.

Tell me again how they deserve to live in a heaven with a perfect God?

Those are some pretty big jumps, and gives some idea why “holier than thou” people are seen as insufferable. Anger makes you have murder in your heart? Sorry, but that is retarded thinking from centuries ago.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
So what di we learn from this? I suppose that depends upon which lenses we view it through.

You absolutely distilled the entire thread down to this one sentence, and you’re absolutely correct. Whether cultural, or spiritual, this can be seen in nearly every post in the thread.

Honestly, this thread could have concluded on page five with Sigmonkey having the last word there, nailed it as rightly as he did.

I’ve read thru this but I might have missed it. He went there to preach the Gospel to them. Just how did he expect to communicate the Gospel to them?

From what I’ve read, he didn’t speak their language; in fact other than this grouping of people, no one else does either. And since they refuse contact with the outside world, seriously doubt if anyone speaks English or any other language other than theirs.

So again, How did he expect to spread the Gospel, other than by example which then hopes that they would be curious enough to want to find out what he was saying.