quote:

Originally posted by BansheeOne:

...

Over here it's deja vu all over again. The refugee movement from Ukraine to the EU is already bigger after ten days than it was from the Middle East in 2015/16, helped by geographical proximity and the fact that Ukrainians can travel into the Schengen Area visa-free for 90 days out of every half-year. Expectation is for a total of four million, about ten percent of Ukraine's population and three times the number in the previous crisis.

Germany expects an eventual 225,000, about a quarter of 2015/16 since this time a lot of the stream is going to the immediate Eastern European neighbor countries and staying there. It's much more concentrated though; Berlin is already struggling with 10,000 arriving per day since this weekend, either intending to stay or travel on to elsewhere. In the last crisis, the high point for the city was a tenth of that.

...

It's always good to get first hand reports from members such as yourself, living in Europe and elsewhere, to where these world events are happening, so thanks for that.

Yes, I've been hearing news reports in which neighboring EU countries, despite their generosity, are quickly becoming overwhelmed by the flood of Ukrainian refugees. In a few isolated incidents, there has been some pushback by locals... and it's likely to get worse before getting better.

And yes, deja vu is accurate, as this has happened before, not just with the more recent flood of immigrants from the Middle East, but in previous times of war.

The irony is that in the news story I posted, some of the refugees are fleeing the occupying country, the country of the invading force. I'm not sure if there has been a time in history in which citizens of the country that initiated the invasion felt the need to flee... well, at least not until they were eventually invaded themselves.

Although, I suppose the sanctions against Russia are effective enough to destabilize life there that they've obviously produced conditions worth fleeing.

There is a long series of tweets from Trent Telenko about the Russian 40 mile convoy north of Kiyv

https://twitter.com/TrentTelen.../1499894935209795594

His theory is that quite a few of these vehicles are out of gas, some are stuck in mud (mud season in this area), and some are broken down due to poor maintenance.

The fact that the convoy is strung out over a long line makes getting to the lead vehicles difficult from the rear.


"The front and middle of the column showed up with food, fuel & ammo for 3-days, & we are 8-days into the war."

"Note also the slopes off to either side of the road."

https://www.business-standard....-122030600749_1.html

Eight rockets launched by Russia destroyed Vinnytsia airport located in Central Ukraine, said Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Sunday, reported The Kyiv Independent.

Zelenskyy called on the western nations and said, "The world has the power to close our skies for Russian rockets and aircraft." He adds that Ukraine requires aircraft, to make Ukrainian skies safe.

Vinnytsia airport is located 7.5 kilometres east of the railway station of Vinnytsia and 1 kilometre southwest of the village of Gavryshivka. It is located in the centre of Ukraine and had convenient transportation for passengers and cargo both in Ukraine and abroad.

This is from February the 15th before the full Russian invasion but is relevant.


Biden Administration Kills Israel-to-Europe Gas Pipeline

https://www.gatestoneinstitute...-europe-gas-pipeline

Biden's decision — reportedly coordinated with Turkey but reached without consulting Israel, Greece or Cyprus, the main countries involved in the project — undercuts three of the strongest American allies in the Mediterranean region.

EastMed's cancellation — variously described as a "disastrous decision," a "strategic mistake" and an act of "appeasement" of Erdoğan — represents a major geopolitical victory for the Turkish strongman.

The EastMed pipeline has been in the works for more than a decade. The Israel-Greece-Cyprus project — joined by Bulgaria, Hungary, North Macedonia, Romania and Serbia — has long been seen as a way to diversify natural gas supplies to Europe.

The Turkish government has always insisted that Israeli gas can only be sold to Europe through Turkey.

"The Americans do not want the pipeline because Ankara might 'get angry.'" — Theofrastos Andreopoulos, defense analyst, defensenet.gr.

"If Erdogan perceives the non-paper as some form of appeasement by Washington, he will simply double down on his gunboat diplomacy in the Eastern Mediterranean and play the role of spoiler in the region." — Richard Goldberg, a member of the U.S. National Security Council during the Trump administration.

Is the Biden administration truly concerned about climate change, or does it want to prevent Israel from becoming a strategically important supplier of natural gas to Europe?

"The reversal on the EastMed pipeline becomes only more hypocritical and offensive given the fact that President Biden continues to clear the path towards completion of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline." — U.S. Representatives Gus Bilirakis (R-FL) and Nicole Malliotakis (R-NY), in a letter to U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

"This is a disastrous decision that imperils European security and opens the door for further Russian energy hegemony in European gas markets. It should be reversed." — Ariel Cohen, veteran energy analyst, The Hill.

"Turkey is not looking to participate in Eastern Mediterranean initiatives, it wants to dominate them. Ankara's goal is not one of cooperation but of regional primacy if not hegemony." — Endy Zemenides, Executive Director, Hellenic American Leadership Council.

The Biden administration has abruptly withdrawn American support for the Eastern Mediterranean (EastMed) pipeline, a project aimed at shipping natural gas from Israel to European markets. The White House said the project was antithetical to its "climate goals."

In reaching its decision, which effectively kills EastMed, the White House appears to have caved to pressure from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who has vociferously opposed the underwater pipeline because it would bypass Turkey.

Biden's decision — reportedly coordinated with Turkey but reached without consulting Israel, Greece or Cyprus, the main countries involved in the project — undercuts three of the strongest American allies in the Mediterranean region.

The White House could not have chosen a less opportune moment to announce its decision. With tensions rising between Russia and Ukraine, Europe (which relies on Russia for approximately one-third of its natural gas supplies) is searching for alternative sources of gas to reduce its overreliance on Moscow.

The Biden administration's decision also smacks of hypocrisy. The White House claims that it wants the Mediterranean region to transition to "clean energy," but it recently announced its support for the Russia-backed Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which would double shipments of Russian natural gas to Germany.

EastMed's cancellation — variously described as a "disastrous decision," a "strategic mistake" and an act of "appeasement" of Erdoğan — represents a major geopolitical victory for the Turkish strongman. Analysts worry that he will be emboldened to continue escalating tensions in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean in his quest to expand Turkish control over energy supply routes to Europe.


Full article at link.

The world ie NATO might have the power but it would be out of their legal charter to exert air power over a NON Nato country. It would be a major escalation. Did Zelensky as national leader exert influence over his military to fail at that job, cause it certainly looks like it. They have no air superiority because they didn't ever achieve it in the first place. Hence the Ghost of Kyiv flying around in stolen video game footage. There was no air coverage that even made a dent in the Russian's abilities.

If someone was trying to provoke the Russians into attacking their country, what would they do different? I see a lot of military experts avoiding that elephant in the room - but giving us the technical details that show it's feasible.

Now, how is this working out for worldwide supporters of Ukraine? Lets see, a few days of combat ammo promised - it will take weeks to ship it and this might be all over by then. So, millions of rounds of ammo GONE from the US market. Funds sent to aid organizations to Ukraine to buy food and supplies for the people - every one of them take an administrative cut to pay their employees. Getting 50% of it there is doing above and beyond. So, double your donation, right?

That line item budgeted in the DOD won't be going to the 11 biolabs in the Ukraine, the Pentagon will just shuffle the money to the next available who apply, are we sure we need more money going into bioweapons research? Really? After the last two years? Do we now finally recognize WE paid for Wuhan to do that, thru the NIH? Not good to see that money disappear and go - where?

If anything refugees are leaving the country, many going to Poland who refused those from the Middle East, and our Border Patrol is going there to assist - including those from Africa demanding entry, which is now promised to them instead of denied. Looks like somebody is getting around their previous policy now.

There is also this event completely taking up the news cycle, just like the pandemic does. Seen footage of the Trucker convoy descending on DC in the national news? What about voter issues in Wisconsin, where fraud is now reported? Latest Death Toll over covid? Big headlines on rescinding mandates in the courts? There has been a policy in operation over the last six years where the news seems to concentrate on their focus not the actual peoples interests to divert our attention.

Much less the billions promised to Ukraine yet our border is still running 1 million illegals a year - who will get drivers licenses, free housing, cash payments, free transportation to metros and they are mostly 18-35 year old males, not terrifed women with children, which is all the get photographed. Most of the Afghans were unvetted military age males, too.

But are we offering free flights to Ukraines refugees here? Maybe they aren't the kind needed?

We aren't supporting Putin just because we don't support this war, which is showing every sign of being a False Flag op. Kinda like sending out a test to see who has symptoms of a disease we don't know much about - so the test only can determine if you have the flu, which suddenly disappeared the last two years. The sleight of hand the American people never seem to suspect is incredulous.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
We aren't supporting Putin just because we don't support this war, which is showing every sign of being a False Flag op.

Oh come on...

You've been posting a whole lot of tin foil hat drivel for the past several days, but this really takes the cake.

Are you seriously now claiming that Ukraine attacked itself, or that NATO attacked Ukraine?

Sure, it's all a conspiracy by the Lizardfolk Illuminati to bring about the New World Order, by utilizing contrail-mind-controlled crisis actors dressed up as Russian solders in front of green screens on the same soundstages used to fake the moon landings back in the day.

At least he is consistent with his tin foil “biolab” nonsense. The false flag bit is new, must be the latest directive from RT.

Mr. Biolab, approximately 12 billion rounds of ammunition are manufactured annually. That means that your “millions” of ammo are a rounding error on what we make a year…

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
This is from February the 15th before the full Russian invasion but is relevant.


Biden Administration Kills Israel-to-Europe Gas Pipeline

url=https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18232/israel-Europe-gas-pipeline]https://www.gatestoneinstitute...-europe-gas-pipeline[/url]

Biden's decision — reportedly coordinated with Turkey but reached without consulting Israel, Greece or Cyprus, the main countries involved in the project — undercuts three of the strongest American allies in the Mediterranean region.

My question is why wouldn’t the major European countries involved in this reinstate the project and tell Biden to pound sand. Especially in light of the current disposition of the Russian pipeline. This would be an easy decision for national security reasons of Europe. EU can “pay their fair share” for their national security and let Pres. Potato sit this decision out.

Got you, it's all about the joint sponsored US/Alien biolabs and the Ukrainians are bombing themselves to cover them up. Makes total sense.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
We aren't supporting Putin just because we don't support this war, which is showing every sign of being a False Flag op.

Oh come on...

You've been posting a whole lot of tin foil hat drivel for the past several days, but this really takes the cake.

Are you seriously now claiming that Ukraine attacked itself, or that NATO attacked Ukraine?

Sure, it's all a conspiracy by the Lizardfolk Illuminati to bring about the New World Order, by utilizing contrail-mind-controlled crisis actors dressed up as Russian solders in front of green screens on the same soundstages used to fake the moon landings back in the day.

Rather reminiscent of George Clemenceau’s riposte to skeptics who asked what future historians would say about the First World War: “They will not say that Belgium invaded Germany.”

This is a good presentation, IMO.



Perhaps it's confirmation bias, but it jibes with my understanding of the history and current status, and my beliefs in the likely outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
We aren't supporting Putin just because we don't support this war, which is showing every sign of being a False Flag op.

Oh come on...

You've been posting a whole lot of tin foil hat drivel for the past several days, but this really takes the cake.

Are you seriously now claiming that Ukraine attacked itself, or that NATO attacked Ukraine?

Sure, it's all a conspiracy by the Lizardfolk Illuminati to bring about the New World Order, by utilizing contrail-mind-controlled crisis actors dressed up as Russian solders in front of green screens on the same soundstages used to fake the moon landings back in the day.
...

Tirod, you joined the forum shortly before the war started and yet you've racked up an impressive number of conspiracy theory posts. I've come to think of you as a False Flag op.

You need to up your game and include some Q-anon and Bilderberg stuff.

You wouldn't happen to be posting from a DHS server would you? Or perhaps out of the country, say, from Russia?

Javelin 101

quote:

which is showing every sign of being a False Flag op.

vs the popularly held belief- "Putin's gone crazy".

Policies and material support involving the Ukraine that backed Putin into a corner resulting in him lashing out vs the childish idea- Putins gone crazy.

Same crew, different administration who brought us the proven fact of Russian Collusion in 2016 are now pushing this new catastrophy.

Consider how much truth we've learned about Russian Collusion in the last 5 years and think about what's going on behind the scene today involving the Ukraine. Add "The Big Guy's" long history with the Ukraine and there's lots of room for skepticism and doubt.

So many theories on what is going on. I just keep to simple, Russia went into Ukraine, I don’t know if Putin, is hearing voices, wearing dresses or singing show tunes, I do know he controls Russia and it’s military. Ukraine has a President who won’t quit and won’t hide or runaway. We have Potatus with some dementia convalescing in Delaware, our number 2 is utterly clueless. That combination makes us weak, globally. Everything is costing more and it is only going to go higher. There is a lot of symbolic horseshit where I live with flags and slogans, typical liberal nonsense to make them selves feel like their doing something, a new form of mask theatre. We’re getting oil from people who at their core hate us, when we can produce more than enough for ourselves; because a teenaged girl from Sweden who has autism sets our energy policy. I go to lunch and I hear college educated professionals and people who live around me saying how great the Potatus is, and this is what a real President does, and how glad Trump is gone they’re willing to pay and wear masks forever. News why do I need it, whether it’s Fox or the propaganda networks. I know people are going to die, innocent people. Collectively our government leaders are to incompetent and corrupt for me to have any faith in peace through a show of strength from our Nation. Thank you my fellow citizens that believed all you did about President Trump, we’re so much better off.

^^^ A lot of what you said/feel spunk is true but the U.S. can't outproduce every other nation in oil - not even close. Saudi Arabia and a couple other countries total potential petroleum output, respectively, dwarfs our total production capability - even with all of our pipelines, drilling and fracking going full tilt.

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
The key to avoiding a major conflagration is who is doing the calculating. Look to the leaders of the various countries concerned and ask, who is doing the calculating? Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

If only it were that simple. Putin thinks he's got the coolest head in the room, and he's the guy who's moving the stakes by defining provision of assistance to the Ukrainians as an "act of war". He's consciously trying to define anything that helps Ukraine as an act of war or at the very least a provocation in an attempt to completely muscle the rest of the world out of the conflict so that Russia's the biggest thug in the room.

Remember how our liberals have tried to construe anything anyone else says as "racist", "sexist" or "part of a fascist takeover that will reinstall Trump in the White House"? If no one else knows what constitutes a morally wrong action but the liberals, then they automatically define the parameters of every conversation whether they can give you a valid reason for doing so or not. On the other side, everyone else is left trying to imagine what will or what won't be "offensive" and editing themselves based on fear of what they imagine might "offend" someone when that someone imagines that offending them is somehow a brave and noble act.

Putin's playing the same game with right or wrong in the middle of a conflict that could become general and, potentially, nuclear.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
The sleight of hand the American people never seem to suspect is incredulous.

You might do better if you speak English better. Grab a dictionary and look up the meaning and proper use of the word "incredulous".

I'll bet Ukraine pres will run away if he has not already done so. A Florida vacation with his ill gotten gains is his future. Sorry, not think realistically. Democrat presidential candidate for 2024 ? Pres Z

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
I'll bet Ukraine pres will run away if he has not already done so.

Perhaps you missed the whole "I need ammunition, not a ride" thing?

I’ve attached a link to an interesting article in “The Conversation” written by a professor at Penn State University. She also happens to be from Ukraine. After reading the article, I’d recommend you read a Wiki article or something similar on the current schism between the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) and the Ecumenical Orthodox Church and the Church of Ukraine.

In short, It looks like Putin and the Russian military are supporting the ROC and in return, they are getting the ROC’s blessing to retrieve “lost” or “former” Russian territory and incidentally parishes in Ukraine (and perhaps elsewhere). The symbiotic relationship helps both religious and secular powers and couches the invasion in somewhat of a “Holy War.” It also makes Putin like the “Defender of the Faith” and the newest Czar. I’d also say, we have the worst type of war, one that is both civil and religious in nature. Of course, oil, is also a factor in my opinion.

https://theconversation.com/ho...putins-russia-176786

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/10...nues-to-anger-moscow

I haven’t read all of this article yet, but it looks rather interesting:

https://icds.ee/wp-content/upl...aa_December_2019.pdf



^^^^^^^^^^
Picture of the new ROC cathedral Putin built to honor the Russian military.

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